Need we say more?

Question

I believe the given sentences mean the same.
1: Do we need to say more?
2: Need we say more?

Do is a question adverb. Correct? Need can function in different capacities as noun, verb and auxiliary verb. In the second sentence it is used as an auxiliary verb. e.g. We need say more means we are under obligation to say more. To change the sentence into interrogative one need is to be placed at the beginning of the sentence just as should and will.

Is what I say above correct? Would you like to add more explanation?

AlpheccaStars · Accepted Answer

Jackson:
#1 "do" is a verb. (auxiliary) not an adverb. "need" is the main verb; the object is the infinitive phrase..("need to" is synonymous with "have to")
#2 say is the main verb, Need is an auxiliary verb. Like the auxiliaries can or may, it does not necessarily agree with the subject - Need he say more? (not needs)
The 2 sentences mean the same.
This is from the dictionary

Usage Note: Depending on the sense, the verb need behaves sometimes like an auxiliary verb (such as can or may) and sometimes like a main verb (such as want or try). When used as a main verb, need agrees with its subject, takes to before the verb following it, and combines with do in questions, negations, and certain other constructions: He needs to go. Does he need to go so soon? He doesn't need to go. When used as an auxiliary verb, need does not agree with its subject, does not take to before the verb following it, and does not combine with do: He needn't go. Need he go so soon?The auxiliary forms of need are used primarily in present-tense questions, negations, and conditional clauses. Unlike can andmay, auxiliary need has no form for the past tense like couldand might.

Jackson6612 · Answer

Thank you, Alphecca.

Jackson6612 · Answer

Do we need to say more?

Let me ask you few more questions. In Will you come to my home today:
will is an auxiliary verb
come is main verb
to my home is infinitive object
today is an adverb

will is still there when this interrogative statement is changed affirmative statement, You will come to my home today. Many other auxiliary verbs follow this pattern. But when Do we need to say more is changed into affirmative statement Do just disappears, We need to say more. What is your explanation for this?

Best wishes,
Jackson

Cool Breeze · Answer

Jackson6612Do we need to say more?

Let me ask you few more questions. In Will you come to my home today:
to my home is infinitive object

But when Do we need to say more is changed into affirmative statement Do just disappears, We need to say more. What is your explanation for this?

To my home has nothing to do with verbs. To is a preposition here. An answer to your last question is given in a previous post: "The auxiliary forms of need are used primarily in present-tense questions, negations, and conditional clauses." In other words, auxiliary need is normally not used in affirmative clauses and therefore to is used before the infinitive (to say).
To is normally used before an infinitive after a verb: I want to say it. As need is not an auxiliary in an affirmative clause, to is neededbefore a verb after it: I need to say it.

To is normally not used before an infinitive after a defective/modal auxiliary verb: I will/may/could/should say it.

CB

CalifJim · Answer

Jackson6612We need say more

Not correct. Modal need has no assertive forms. Modal need must be used only in interrogatives and negatives. In this it differs from other modals.

See .
CJ

Jackson6612 · Answer

Hi Jim,

The linked question in the previous post was answered in 2004. How did you find it? The search engine of EnglishForward is really bad and sometimes I couldn't even find recent threads of mine. Besides this, how come you remember that thread after so long?

Best wishes,
Jackson

Jackson6612 · Answer

Hi CB,

Cool BreezeTo my home has nothing to do with verbs. To is a preposition here.

Did I say it had anything to do with verbs? Yes, to is a preposition but to my home functions an infinitive object. Am I wrong?

Cool BreezeThe auxiliary forms of need are used primarily in present-tense questions, negations, and conditional clauses.

Why conditional clauses, why not simply ''conditional sentence(s)''?

Cool Breeze In other words, auxiliary need is normally not used in affirmative clauses and therefore to is used before the infinitive (to say).

Is auxiliary need and modal need the same thing? should, may, will, etc. are auxiliaries verbs and at the same time modal verbs.

Is affirmative clause and assertive clause the same thing?

I believe infinitive has different definitions. Can both say and to say be called infinitives? In the below given quoted text you have used two different definitions of infinitive, say is an infinitive and to say is also an infinitive.

Cool BreezeTo is normally used before an infinitive after a verb: I want to say it. As need is not an auxiliary in an affirmative clause, to is neededbefore a verb after it: I need to say it.

Cool BreezeTo is normally not used before an infinitive after a defective/modal auxiliary verb: I will/may/could/should say it.

What is defective/modal auxiliary verb?

Sorry for asking you too many questions. I hope you will give a touch to all the above questions.

Thanks,
Jackson

AlpheccaStars · Answer

Jackson:

Jackson6612Do we need to say more?

Let me ask you few more questions. In Will you come to my home today:
will is an auxiliary verb
come is main verb
to my home is infinitive object
today is an adverb

will is still there when this interrogative statement is changed affirmative statement, You will come to my home today. Many other auxiliary verbs follow this pattern. But when Do we need to say more is changed into affirmative statement Do just disappears, We need to say more. What is your explanation for this?

Best wishes,
Jackson

I highly recommend that you study the techniques of diagramming sentences (links below). Then it will make more sense to you. You can look in the dictionary to figure out the part of speeh for each word. Some words can be multiple parts of speech depending on how the word is used in the sentence.
On the word order: We must have an auxiliary to make an interrogative sentence. THe auxiliary still can be used in the indicative affirmative, for emphasis.
Do we need to say more?
We do need to say more. (emphasis). We need to say more. (simple affirmative)

http://grammar.ccc.commnet.edu/grammar/diagrams/diagrams.htm (main page)

http://grammar.ccc.commnet.edu/grammar/diagrams2/one_pager1.htm (illustration)

AlpheccaStars · Answer

Jackson6612What is defective/modal auxiliary verb?

Jackson:
See the catenative verb entry in wiki.. These verbs can be followed by other verbs - infinitive, gerund, and bare infinitive.

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Appendix:English_catenative_verbs

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