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Szymon Posted 17 years ago
Grammar

Native speakers and grammar geeks, please help!!!

Hello, this is my first post here but I've been visiting the site for at least several months since I have found some very interesting discussions here.
My question is going to be really complicated and it will take you some time to read through.
But I would be very grateful for ANY help as I seem to be stuck with the problem for good.

It all started when I asked three native speakers of English to tell me the order of events in some sentences. So I showed them an introductory sentence on which I wanted to build the next sentences, the sentence was:

a) I would have liked to start to live there.

I was about to ask next question when the native speakers, from RSA, Canada and the USA, said that the sentence was wrong and it should have been:

b) I would have liked to have started to live there.

I looked at them with incredulity - I thought my version was right since I had seen such sentences befor. Later that day I checked some books and The Corpus of Contemporary American English, and my version was both in the books and in the Corpus. I wanted to create more complicated sentences and it turned out that I did not understand basic grammar.

So here is my analysis of sentence a). Would you be so kind as to confirm if my understanding is proper? If not, please, help me.

In 2005 Mike was looking for a flat and he found one, he liked the flat and he said:

c) 'I would like to start to live in this flat from next Monday'

today, I would like to express his then interest and willingness (his then 'would-liking') to live in the flat BUT not by the means of reported speech. One version, which is much more understandable to me, may be

d) He would like to have started to live in that flat from the following Monday

at the same time, I understand this sentence as: d1) He wishes he had started to live there from the following Monday

The next version may be (?):

e) He would have liked to start to live there from the following Monday

I understand the sentence as: e1) He wished he started to live/ He wished he would start to live there from the following Monday

Now, sentences d1) and e1) are different in terms of the moment in time of expressesing one's wants/wishes/('would-likings') as to living in the flat, the wish in d1) just takes place in the present but refers to the past, the wish in e1) took place in the past (say, Saturday, May 15th, 2005) but refers to the future (in the otherwise past - as looked at from today's point of view; that is the Monday after the Saturday). Am I right? If not, please, correct me.

Why I have come up with the two versions [(d) and (e)] is because I would like to draw your attention to the function of 'have' in the sentences, 'have' moves back to the past all the elements it precedes, or rather the main clause it affects, thus in e) the entire sentence is in the past, in d) 'would like' is in the present but 'starting to live there' is in the past.
With this in mind, how come the sentence the native speakers came up with (sentence b) ) can express the thought I expressed in sentence e)???

This is how I understand sentence b):

In 1935 Mike was looking for a holiday offer, he wanted to go to Rome, it was expensive, he did not accept the offer despite the fact that he had always wanted to visit this city, he went to Paris instead, some years later a war was waged and Rome was completely destroyed, in 1945, just after the war, Mike says to his wife:

f) I would like so much to have visited the pre-war Rome; (=[?] I wish I had visited it before the war)

Now, in 2009, he says to his wife:

'Honey, in 1945 I wished i had visited the pre-war Rome. Do you remember me telling you that all the time? But today I do not wish I had visited the pre-war Rome anymore.'

So, please, could you tell me how to say it properly using 'would like'?

My version is:
g) Honey,I would not like to visit the pre-war Rome anymore, but you can remember - in 1945 I would have liked (wished) to have visited the pre-war Rome.= I would have liked (then) to have visited the pre-war Rome.

Also, I could say:
h) Today I would like to visit the pre-war Rome.

In ten years I will say (???):
i) (That day) I would have liked to visit/to have visited(??) the pre-war Rome.

It is all so complicated to me, English is not as easy as it seems to be when I am dealing with such grammar.
I would like to ask you to try to answer my questions, if you do not want to explain it to me, please, give me the right sentences. I will be very grateful. Thank you.
  
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