Myriologue

Question

In researching an alternate career as a professional mourner, I've come across the myriologue, an extemporaneous song, said to derive from the Greek goddess of fate or death. As far as I know these were Nemesis and Circe - is there a goddess I've been overlooking?

And how much does a p.m. get paid? (in addition to surreptitious pilfery)

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[nq:1]In researching an alternate career as a professional mourner, I've come across the myriologue, an extemporaneous song, said to derive ... is there a goddess I've been overlooking? And how much does a p.m. get paid? (in addition to surreptitious pilfery)[/nq]
You might start as an apprentice in Ireland. Professional keeners are employed there. See:
http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/5567/keening.html

where it covers payment saying:
"The paid keeners were given food and drink and it is said that the performance which was better when louder was improved after the first glass of whisky. Professional keeners would strive to better their professional standing by trying to outdo the competition of other keeners at the wake.This lead to fighting and clerical disapproval"

It does take some skills and training to be successful at keening. Here's what you might expect:"The practice of keening is described by a traveler in Kildare in 1683: "as soon as the bearers have taken up the body, they begin their shrill cries and hideous hootings...and if there be not enough to make out a good cry they hire the best and deepest mouthed in all the country and so they proceed towards the church; this now may be heard two miles or more. When they come at the church-yard on this occasion, (and at other times also) perhaps 5, 10 or 20 years after their husband, friend or relation has been buried, they repair to their graves where they kneel over them, knocking and beating upon the grave and praising the party, repeating the former kindnesses have passed between them intreating that they would attend and give ear to them, then in an odd tone sorrowing and lamenting their loss and complain and tell them how they are misused and by whom injured and thereon pray their help to right them; and thus they continue commonly until some compassionating friend or neighbour come and lift them from the ground with expostulating language, so they return satisfied as having given an account to one that in time may redress their injuries, revenge or relieve them.

The women are mostly inclined and observed to practice these things, and many the like a more anxious eye might discover amonst them"- O Súilleabháin, Irish Wake Amusements., p.135.

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]In researching an alternate career as a professional mourner, I've come across the myriologue, an extemporaneous song, said to derive ... or death. As far as I know these were Nemesis and Circe - is there a goddess I've been overlooking?[/nq]
I've heard of the Decalogue, but a myriologue seems excessive! I had to look it up to find that the "myrio-" element is actually a modern Greek corruption of "moira", which is the ordinary word for "fate". But even moirologion* doesn't seem to be a classical word; *moirologeô means "tell somebody his fate". Moira was the original personified fate-goddess, but there were later three Fates: Clotho, Lachesis, and Atropos. (I always wince a little when I hear of a woman named "Moira".)
I think Nemesis is retribution rather than fate; and Circe was just a witch in the Odyssey (did she have divine parentage? I can't remember).
Mike.

Usenet · Answer

[nq:2]In researching an alternate career as a professional mourner, I've ... and Circe - is there a goddess I've been overlooking?[/nq]
[nq:1] I've heard of the Decalogue, but a myriologue seems excessive! I had to look it up to find that ... later three Fates: Clotho, Lachesis, and Atropos. (I always wince a little when I hear of a woman named "Moira".)[/nq]
You have Clotho ears? I suspect the woman's name is from the Gaelic Meare, rather than the Greek for Fate(s). 'Moirologist' is still in OED for "A hired mourner in modern Greece."
[nq:1]I think Nemesis is retribution rather than fate; and Circe was just a witch in the Odyssey (did she have divine parentage? I can't remember).[/nq]
Circe was the daughter of Helios (Apollo's Charioteer & Sun ***) and a sea nymph.
"Just a witch"? Since she is immortal on her Father's side, I hope you sleep lightly.
As for payment to the modern moirologist, I hope we're not going to get into the whole 'What's a Greek Urn?' 'How do you make a Maltese Cross?' routine.

I recollect 'Atropos' was one of Hornblower's ships. Atropos de rien ...
John Dean
Oxford
De-frag to reply

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]In researching an alternate career as a professional mourner, I've come across the myriologue, an extemporaneous song, said to derive ... or death. As far as I know these were Nemesis and Circe - is there a goddess I've been overlooking?[/nq]
You were misinformed: the Three (Greek) Fates were Clotho, Lachesis and Atropos. They were not quite the same as the Three Norns of (Viking) Yggdrasil. You may need to specialize for varying clients.

Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs (Ottawa, Canada)

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You do a **** good Padraig, John. I did know about Moira; but it doesn't stop me wincing. Thanks for the warning about Circe: will garlic or something under the pillow help, do you think? I don't want to be turned into a pig yet. In the course of preparing to move, I've just Barnardoed all my Hornblower books: I hope it wasn't a mistake. I fancy Atropos, the original lady who was not for turning, is the one who *** up your acetyl-choline receptors, n'est-ce pas?

Mike.

Usenet · Answer

[nq:2]In researching an alternate career as a professional mourner, I've ... and Circe - is there a goddess I've been overlooking?[/nq]
[nq:1] I've heard of the Decalogue, but a myriologue seems excessive! I had to look it up to find that ... always wince a little when I hear of a woman named "Moira".) I think Nemesis is retribution rather than fate;[/nq]
She was the goddess of revenge also, I think.

Saludos cordiales
Javi
Mood conjugation:
I am an artist
You are a Bohemian
He forgot to shave this morning
(Craig Brown)

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]Mike Lyle escribió :[/nq]
[nq:2]I think Nemesis is retribution rather than fate;[/nq]
[nq:1]She was the goddess of revenge also, I think.[/nq]
Have we got a Spanish-English issue here, Javi? I know "retribution" isn't the same in French as in English: our "retribution" includes revenge.
Mike.

Usenet · Answer

[nq:2]She was the goddess of revenge also, I think.[/nq]
[nq:1]Have we got a Spanish-English issue here, Javi?[/nq]
Probably. False friends are one of my biggest problems. Fortunately, I know some Latin, and I have found out that English usually maintains a meaning nearer to Latin than Spanish do, but this is not exactly the case: in Latin, "retributio" means either "reward" or "answer" or "revenge", not "deserved punishment", which seems to be the main English meaning, although, as you say, it can include "revenge".
[nq:1]I know "retribution" isn't the same in French as in English: our "retribution" includes revenge.[/nq]
Thank you, Mike. My Oxford dictionary, where I looked for the word, only says that retribution is "deserved punishment", but now I see that my English-Spanish dictionary translates it as either "justo castigo" (deserved punishment) or "venganza" (revenge). I suppose that I should try to get the big OED.
By the way, I find curious that English has one word that can mean both things. In Spanish, revenge has nothing to do with justice.

Saludos cordiales
Javi
Mood conjugation:
I am an artist
You are a Bohemian
He forgot to shave this morning
(Craig Brown)

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]By the way, I find curious that English has one word that can mean both things. In Spanish, revenge has nothing to do with justice.[/nq]
Interesting: I'd never though about it. I think we'd qualify by saying "just revenge" if we felt it necessary, as revenge in English too tends not to be included under "justice".
Mike.

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