My English classes are a joke!

Question

Hello, guys!I come from Portugal. I am in the 11th form, and English classes are obligatory in Portugal from the 5th to the 11th forms. All right, they're only obligatory in practice, because, in theory, only a 'first' foreign language is obligatory. However, English is generally chosen for a first language, and I doubt any more than 20 parents (the required number to open a class) in any given school want their children learning French or Spanish or German in the 5th form. So, English is basically obligatory.However, it seems that, from the 10th form or so onwards, these classes here in Portugal are just pointless. To demonstrate what I mean, I shall describe my usual class.We begin by correcting homework from the previous class. The homework was a page of grammar exercises from the book. Everybody is just talking with each other, and there's a lot of noise in the room. Nobody really cares. Nobody is really paying attention. And they don't have to because the teacher isn't speaking. There's just a student sitting in front of the computer, typing what they have answered, and then clicking the 'check' button to see if it is right. Most of the times, the computer says the answer is wrong, when it's actually right, and the student, accompanied by the teacher, must figure out exactly what is considered correct by the computer, even though the initial input was really correct. This is an actual example from today's class, including the several attempts to answer:Rewrite the following sentences using the words in brackets in the appropriate form without changing their meaning:a) I'll let you go to the party if you pass the test with a good mark. (provided)— I'll let you go to the party provided that you pass the test with a good mark. Wrong!— I'll let you go to the party provided you pass the test with a good mark. Wrong!— I'll let you go to the party, provided that you pass the test with a good mark. Wrong!— Provided that you pass the test with a good mark, I'll let you go to the party. Right!So... The most intuitive and correct answer is wrong... You must have a plethora of possible answers ready to make sure you'll get the right one. This happens often.Next, we read a text. Wait... Did I say we read a text? I'm sorry: I meant to say we hear a text being read by a recording on the computer. No-one really reads the text. No-one practises speaking. At the beginning of the text, there is a section called 'Starter: oral practice', where we are supposed to have a discussion in class, prior to the reading of the text, about its subject. You know, to practise speaking and listening skills. However, as a friend of mine said, 'doing that would actually make sense, so we're obviously not going to do it!'Then, you have to answer the questions that follow the text. All right, at least with that, I can find nothing wrong. Except that, don't forget, there is still a lot of noise, because nobody really cares. I do the exercises in under five minutes, since they are so easy, and then I can spend another ten extremely productive minutes doing absolutely nothing!And then, it's time for some grammar! This can come in two ways. Either the teacher tells us to do it as homework (and I have to carry the book home, instead of leaving it in my locker, only so that I can frustratingly do only one single page of extremely easy exercises which will take no longer than five minutes) or she shows us a PowerPoint presentation. The presentation contains the exact same explanations and examples as those that are in the book. When the teacher is angry with the class because most people keep on talking, she demands that we (even those who remain silent) copy from the PowerPoint all the explanations there. She then requires that we copy all the exercises which the presentation contains (even though they are very similar to those in the book), do those exercises and then do more exercises from the book, even though they are very similar.Basically, that's how the class itself is a complete waste of time. In fact, on Fridays, I have to stay at school during the afternoon due to the English class. I get home at around 17:30. If it weren't for the English class, I could get home at around 14:00. During the 3,5 hours gained, I am sure that I could learn so much more at home than in those classes.And what about the tests? Well, my next test is going to be an English test on Friday, 8th May; and on Monday, 11th May, I shall have a Maths test. Knowing this, just today, I had this conversation with a friend of mine:HE: I want you to know something.I: What?HE: We're not going to have any more tests for another two weeks!BOTH: Yay! (we give each other a high five)I: And...HE: What?I: We're not going to have any more real tests for another three weeks!BOTH: Yay! (we laugh and give each other a high five)Today, the teacher, upon seeing how most people in class were not behaving, threatened to move the test to the following Monday. I thought about it, and then I told my friend: 'As I enter the room for the class, the teacher could tell me, "OK, guys, this is a surprise test, and you will do it today, right now": I really wouldn't mind! On the day of the test, I shall be just as prepared as I am now!'For the test, all I need is some luck so that I will not write something that is actually correct but which the teacher will consider to be wrong; and so that I will not make any mistake whilst writing, since, apparently, the teacher takes points for presenting the test with anything that has been struck through, which means that we must either write everything twice, first with a pencil and then with a pen over it, wasting twice as long, or pray that we'll get everything right at first.That's 11th form English teaching here in Portugal. Up until the 8th form or so, it was really good and useful, because one could actually learn something. But then, it just began to get pointless, and it is now worse than ever. I now learn much more by watching series online, reading English websites, and doing other activities at home (I probably spend about 95% of my free time in contact with the English language). Fortunately, in Portugal, TV stations did not adopt the terrible Central European custom of dubbing, instead of subtitling, foreign series and movies; watching series with subtitles has allowed me to be more in contact with the English language and facilitated learning. Just by doing that, after the first three or four years of formal teaching, one can really learn much more than in school.So, that's how English teaching works here in Portugal for me. My final opinion: it is a complete joke. What about you guys? For non-native English students, how is your school teaching? And for native English speakers, how is your teaching of other foreign languages?

Anonymous · Accepted Answer

MrGuedesAnd for native English speakers, how is your teaching of other foreign languages?

If you think that's bad, you can consider yourself lucky that you haven't had to experience foreign language lessons in British schools. Schools in England, in particular. At least you were doing some work.

Language lessons are in secondary schools, which means for students aged 11 to 16.

For a lot of students, how much teaching they receive depends on which so-called "set" (meaning stream) they are put in, for language lessons. It's a hierarchical system with those few who are in the top sets, usually getting the most teaching. That's the case with all subjects, not just languages. Most are put in the middle and bottom sets.

In the middle, the teaching is often just copying from a textbook or blackboard/whiteboard and sometimes being told a few words and sentences to put together. That doesn't get any more advanced than writing things like "My name is x", "I live in x" and "I am x years old".
In the bottom sets, the teaching is almost always just copying from a textbook or blackboard/whiteboard, without even being given an English translation. On rare occasions, teachers would write a few, foreign words on a board, to copy, with English translations next to them. They would be random and disconnected words, like house, chemist and town hall. Forming sentences is not even attempted.

In the middle and bottom sets, speaking is not even attempted, except when the "coursework" for the subject has to be done. That means a particular piece of work that each student has to do, as a precondition for doing a GCSE exam in each subject. For foreign languages, that means speaking a few sentences into a tape recording which is sent to an exam board for marking and as a precondition for being allowed to do the exam for that language. The teacher just tells each student what to say and what it means in English, then rehearses it a few times before recording.

On top of all that, students can be moved down from top sets to middle or bottom ones, or, from middle sets to the bottom one, at any time, without any reason being given by any teacher.

This is the experience of foreign language lessons in school, for a lot of people. There are some exceptions, like the few children who attend private schools and the few, decent language teachers in state schools. Even those few, decent teachers are very rare.

For a lot of people, if they want a chance to learn a foreign language, they are on their own.

MrGuedes · Answer

Well, then I guess the British teaching of foreign languages isn't really much better than its Portuguese counterpart, is it?

The way you describe the bottom and middle sets reminds me of my 3rd and 4th form English teaching. It wasn't obligatory in my school, but simply counted as an extracurricular activity for which my parents signed me up. You basically just learnt words. You know, some parts of the human body, some colours, some house items, and that was pretty much it. There was no grammar. You only begin to learn more seriously in the 5th form.

My experience has suggested to me that the listening and speaking skills are those that the teachers tend to value the least (although they would be the most useful in actually entering in contact with foreign people through the most natural form of communication). My English accent and my ability to understand other people speaking would never be good if I hadn't been in contact with so much English language media, but only with the English teaching my school provides. But, according to what you've told me, if you really need to practise with your teacher the pronunciation of specific learnt sentences, which you will speak to a recording tape, so that it may be analysed and you may be admitted to a speaking exam, what kind of speaking practice is that? Just learning to say specific sentences? No actual conversation?

To be honest, I thought the teaching of foreign languages there in Britain would be better than it is here in Portugal. That description has disappointed me. Why do you think it is so bad? Do you think it might be that, since English is the most international language that exists, the ministries of education of countries where it is the official language may tend not to care much about improving the teaching of foreign languages, due to the idea that 'English will help you anywhere'?

And, by the way, what do you mean by the bottom, middle and top sets? What are the criteria to be part of each of them? How does that really work? I'm not sure I quite got that...

Anonymous · Answer

MrGuedesYou basically just learnt words. You know, some parts of the human body, some colours, some house items, and that was pretty much it.

In my experience at different secondary schools in England, that amount or variety of words was not taught. There was just a very short list of random words that looked big on a whiteboard but, when copied on paper, was smaller than the palm of a hand.

MrGuedesMy experience has suggested to me that the listening and speaking skills are those that the teachers tend to value the least (although they would be the most useful in actually entering in contact with foreign people through the most natural form of communication).

The underlined part is exactly right.

MrGuedesBut, according to what you've told me, if you really need to practise with your teacher the pronunciation of specific learnt sentences, which you will speak to a recording tape, so that it may be analysed and you may be admitted to a speaking exam, what kind of speaking practice is that? Just learning to say specific sentences? No actual conversation?

You haven't quite grasped that. Speaking into a tape recorder was not a regular thing. It was a one-off, near the end of year 11 and therefore, near the end of my time at school. School is from ages 4 to 16, so year 11 is for people aged 15 to 16. Apart from that, speaking was never practised in the bottom and middle sets, all the way throughout secondary school.

I knew one person in another school who did have a decent language teacher. They learnt a lot, including practising speaking. That was exceptional and was only for their first year of language lessons, which was year 7, the first year of secondary school. The teacher left the school at the end of the year so, the decent teaching stopped then.

Each student had to do the tape recording separately with the teacher, in a separate room.

It was not so that students could be admitted to a speaking exam (those don't exist at school level of education). It was the coursework for the language subjects. Coursework (since replaced with "controlled assessments") is/was a particular piece of work that has to be done in year 11, before the final school exams called GCSEs http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Certificate_of_Secondary_Education This is the case in many GCSE subjects, not just foreign languages. Only what the coursework involves, differs depending on subjects. It has to be done so that students will be allowed to do a GCSE exam, which is a written exam at the end of year 11.

Basically, not doing coursework means no exam and therefore, no GCSE qualification in a subject. Unofficially, many teachers in the middle and bottom sets will not explain or give any help with coursework to certain students. This means that they don't complete it or even do any, and therefore, are not entered for the exams. When done to a certain amount of students in different subjects, it means that a school's GCSE results are distorted and made to look better than they otherwise would be. It's basically a way of weeding out undesirable students from GCSE exams, so that they won't collectively lower a school's GCSE results in a particular year. It's one of the "dark arts", another of which is explained here http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/newsnight/9674889.stm

MrGuedesTo be honest, I thought the teaching of foreign languages there in Britain would be better than it is here in Portugal. That description has disappointed me. Why do you think it is so bad? Do you think it might be that, since English is the most international language that exists, the ministries of education of countries where it is the official language may tend not to care much about improving the teaching of foreign languages, due to the idea that 'English will help you anywhere'?

I don't know. If that is a reason, it would be the last possible one. It would be an extra, after the main reasons which are the setting system itself, the poor quality of teachers in general and the dark arts.

MrGuedesAnd, by the way, what do you mean by the bottom, middle and top sets? What are the criteria to be part of each of them? How does that really work? I'm not sure I quite got that...

In the UK, it's generally known as "setting". It's explained further, here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tracking_(education) although in the article at that link, sets are referred to as tracks. Teachers just decide which students will be in which sets, in each subject. They don't have to give a reason why and rarely if ever, do. In the past, deciding sets for years 10 and 11 used to happen at the end of year 9, based on the results of SATs (that rhymes with the words bats and cats) tests http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Curriculum_assessment which were done near the end of year 9. The strange part was, the results of the SATs tests were not revealed to students who were only told that their sets in year 10 were determined by them! Those tests have since been abolished.

People don't always stay in the same set for each subject. They can be moved down at any time, even when everyone has just arrived in a classroom and the lesson is about to begin. That happened to one person in my class. The teacher waited until everyone settled at a table and then told them, in front of everyone else, to go to another class for the same subject. When the student asked why, they were told something like "You're not in this class anymore. That's your class for every lesson, so don't come back." That was the last thing that was ever said about it.

Tracking/setting can be done during any year in secondary school but, it matters most when GCSEs are studied for, starting in year 10 and continuing until the end of year 11 and school. The sets that someone is put in determine the maximum grade that they can achieve in each subject. This is not only because of the generally poor quality of teachers in the middle and bottom sets, but also because each has a different exam paper to do in the GCSE, even within the same subject. Bottom sets do a "foundation paper" which allows them to achieve a maximum grade of D or C, depending on the subject. Middle sets sometimes do an "intermediate paper" which allows them to achieve a maximum grade of C or B, depending on the subject. Some middle sets can only do a foundation paper, depending on the subject. Top sets do a "higher paper" which allows them to achieve the maximum, possible grade which is A* (pronounced as the letter A followed by the word star, so, "A star").

Anonymous · Answer

Poor teaching is not limited to foreign languages, in British secondary schools. It's common in other subjects as well.

That includes English lessons. It's not uncommon for the language itself, not to be taught. Grammar, punctuation and spelling are not taught at all, to most people. Not even vocabulary or writing documents. English lessons are almost always just analysing poems and stories. Sometimes they can involve writing an essay about something unrelated to poems, stories and the English language. Teachers don't normally correct grammar, punctuation and spelling mistakes.

Fivejedjon · Answer

Anonymous you can consider yourself lucky that you haven't had to experience foreign language lessons in British schools.

I taught French and German in several British state schools (both 11-16 and 11-18) for 24 years, and never encountered anything like the situations you describe.

There are weak language teachers just as there are weak teachers in other subjects, and weak professionals in any area. However, the majority of language teachers I worked with, some of whom are still teaching, did their best at all times to provide lively, stimulating classes for their pupils. These lessons involved a very wide range of listening, speaking, reading and writing activities. Copying from a textbook or whiteboard was rare, in my experience.

There are faults in the education system, not helped at all by constant government changes in policy, but the majority of schools and teachers work very hard to help their pupils acquire a sound education.

Anonymous · Answer

fivejedjonThere are faults in the education system, not helped at all by constant government changes in policy, but the majority of schools and teachers work very hard to help their pupils acquire a sound education.

That wasn't my experience or that of everyone else that I knew in the schools that I attended, as well other schools. Everyone one of us had to experience the infamous setting system.

Fivejedjon · Answer

AnonymousThat wasn't my experience or that of everyone else that I knew in the schools that I attended, as well other schools. Everyone one of us had to experience the infamous setting system.

Your use if the word 'infamous' of setting systems does not suggest an unbiased approach to that particular topic.

If you Google the topic, you'll find numerous articles and reports on setting. You'll find that there are some strongly voiced opinions both for and against, but reports such as this one, which set out to be objective, are a little more rational.

Anonymous · Answer

fivejedjonYour use if the word 'infamous' of setting systems does not suggest an unbiased approach to that particular topic.

What else do you expect if someone has been on the receiving end of a system that is inherently biased?

Cloa513 · Answer

My Japanese wife was learning English in what was called Bible College in Perth, Western Australia 6 years ago. The content was colonial English- she couldn't do the homework so I did it. What a waste of time and effort. The teaching of English to foreigners in Australia is a joke.  Her general speaking English is good but her vocabulary and her attitude is terrible

Fivejedjon · Answer

cloa513he teaching of English to foreigners in Australia is a joke.

You can say this with authority after your wife's experience in one college. Hmmm.

My English classes are a joke!

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