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Usenet Posted 21 years ago
Usage
Must take/must have taken
Hello:
The following passage is mostly in past time and past tense.
Wonder if, at least as per present grammar rules,
"must necessarily take their chance"
shouldn't accordingly be replaced by
"must have taken their chance"?
Education was almost entirely a matter of luck usually of ill-luck in those distant days. The state of mind in which you take a billiard-cue or a dice-box in your hand is one of sober certainty compared with that of old-fashioned fathers, like Mr. Tulliver, when they selected a school or a tutor for their sons. Excellent men, who had been forced all their lives to spell on an impromptu-phonetic system, and having carried on a successful business in spite of this disadvantage, had acquired money enough to give their sons a better start in life than they had had themselves, must necessarily take their chance as to the conscience and the competence of the schoolmaster whose circular fell in their way, and appeared to promise so much more than they would ever have thought of asking for, including the return of linen, fork, and spoon.
George Eliot, The Mill on the Floss
1 7
Swan (Practical English Usage), at least, tells me that:
"Must" has ... no past tense. When necessary, we use other words, for example forms of "have to".
We had to cut short our holidays because my mother was ill.
However, ideas about the past can be expressed by
"must" followed by a perfect infinitive (have + past participle): I can't find my keys. I must have left them at home. "Must" can also be used with a past tense in indirect speech. Everybody told me I must stop worrying.
This doesn't seem to be a case of indirect speech, thus ...
Thank you.
Marius Hancu
The following passage is mostly in past time and past tense.
Wonder if, at least as per present grammar rules,
"must necessarily take their chance"
shouldn't accordingly be replaced by
"must have taken their chance"?
Education was almost entirely a matter of luck usually of ill-luck in those distant days. The state of mind in which you take a billiard-cue or a dice-box in your hand is one of sober certainty compared with that of old-fashioned fathers, like Mr. Tulliver, when they selected a school or a tutor for their sons. Excellent men, who had been forced all their lives to spell on an impromptu-phonetic system, and having carried on a successful business in spite of this disadvantage, had acquired money enough to give their sons a better start in life than they had had themselves, must necessarily take their chance as to the conscience and the competence of the schoolmaster whose circular fell in their way, and appeared to promise so much more than they would ever have thought of asking for, including the return of linen, fork, and spoon.
George Eliot, The Mill on the Floss
1 7
Swan (Practical English Usage), at least, tells me that:
"Must" has ... no past tense. When necessary, we use other words, for example forms of "have to".
We had to cut short our holidays because my mother was ill.
However, ideas about the past can be expressed by
"must" followed by a perfect infinitive (have + past participle): I can't find my keys. I must have left them at home. "Must" can also be used with a past tense in indirect speech. Everybody told me I must stop worrying.
This doesn't seem to be a case of indirect speech, thus ...
Thank you.
Marius Hancu
Top answer
[nq:1]Hello: The following passage is mostly in past time and past tense. [/nq] No: see your example below. " The "must" in the example from the book was quite regular when it was written, and I think we'd use it that way now if there were no neat alternative.
- [nq:1]Hello: The following passage is mostly in past time and past tense.
- [/nq] No: see your example below.
- " The "must" in the example from the book was quite regular when it was written, and I think we'd use it that way now if there were no neat alternative.
- [nq:1]However, ideas about the past can be expressed by "must" followed by a perfect infinitive (have + past participle): I ...
- Everybody told me I must stop worrying.
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4 Answers
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[nq:1]Hello: The following passage is mostly in past time and past tense. Wonder if, at least as per present grammar rules, "must necessarily take their chance" shouldn't accordingly be replaced by "must have taken their chance"?[/nq]
No: see your example below. "I must have left..." means "I am sure that I left..."
The "must" in the example from the book was quite regular when it was writ
No: see your example below. "I must have left..." means "I am sure that I left..."
The "must" in the example from the book was quite regular when it was writ
00
[nq:1]No: see your example below. "I must have left..." means "I am sure that I left..."[/nq]
Indeed ... I missed the fact that Swan was dealing with certainty in that section, not obligation or necessity.
[nq:1]The "must" in the example from the book was quite regular when it was written, and I think we'd use it that way now if there were no neat alternative.[/nq]
Good to know.
Th
Indeed ... I missed the fact that Swan was dealing with certainty in that section, not obligation or necessity.
[nq:1]The "must" in the example from the book was quite regular when it was written, and I think we'd use it that way now if there were no neat alternative.[/nq]
Good to know.
Th
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[nq:1]Wonder if, at least as per present grammar rules, "must necessarily take their chance" shouldn't accordingly be replaced by "must have taken their chance"?[/nq]
Personally, I'd reword to "had to take their chances" (rather than "must have taken", for reasons you've mentioned). Per present norms, I'm not sure "must" can stand in the present tense.
"Education was almost entirely a matt
Personally, I'd reword to "had to take their chances" (rather than "must have taken", for reasons you've mentioned). Per present norms, I'm not sure "must" can stand in the present tense.
"Education was almost entirely a matt
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[nq:1]Hello: The following passage is mostly in past time and past tense. Wonder if, at least as per present grammar ... that: "Must" has ... no past tense. When necessary, we use other words, for example forms of "have to"..[/nq]
That's an oversimplification. "Must" can be past as well as present. This usage is now mostly literary, and I think it works in the example above.
Jerry Fri
That's an oversimplification. "Must" can be past as well as present. This usage is now mostly literary, and I think it works in the example above.
Jerry Fri
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