Must be vs. must have been

Question

A.  This must be from your new camera.B.  This must have been from your new camera.C.  This must be taken from your new camera.D.  This must have been taken from your new camera.E.  Is this from your new camera?F.  Was this from your new camera?G.  Is this picture shot from your new camera?H.  Was this picture shot from your new camera?1.  Suppose I am writing a comment on a picture of someone posted on a website, which of the above in each pair is correct?2.  If both are possible, what is the difference?3.  Which is more natural in each pair?

Avangi · Accepted Answer

AnonymousA. This must be from your new camera.
B. This must have been from your new camera.

Need context.
If part of your camera falls on the floor, and your friend picks it up, use A. (It wll always be a piece from your new camera - at least, until the camera becomes old, or it's no longer yours.)

Even if you're referring to a photo, it will never stop being from your new camera.

I wouldn't use B. under any circumstances. (I'm not saying that native speakers don't do it!)

AnonymousE. Is this from your new camera?
F. Was this from your new camera?

This is the same situation as A & B.
Use E. Don't use F.

People use B& F casually, but they're actually referring to the C/D; G/H situation.

AnonymousC. This must be taken from your new camera.
D. This must have been taken from your new camera.

In this case, you're talking about an act which occurred in the past. If you're talking about the photo, use only D.
I'd also suggest the preposition "with" instead of "from."
We take the photo with the camera.
We take the photo from the wrong angle - or from two miles away.

If you're talking about a piece which has been removed from your camera, you can use either one.
C. would be the verb "to be" plus past participle as adjective. (similar to "It is broken." "It is taken from my camera.")
D. would be present perfect, passive voice.

AnonymousG. Is this picture shot from your new camera?
H. Was this picture shot from your new camera?

These are both fine.
In G., "shot" is an adjective. In H., it's a verb in passive voice.

Anonymous · Answer

Thank you, Avangi. Your explanation was really helpful.

I just have some questions below I hope you can help me with, please.

AvangiC. This must be taken with your new camera.
D. This must have been taken with your new camera.

In this case, you're talking about an act which occurred in the past. If you're talking about the photo, use only D.

AvangiG. Is this picture shot from your new camera?
H. Was this picture shot from your new camera?

These are both fine.
In G., "shot" is an adjective. In H., it's a verb in passive voice.
In the case of H/G, don't you think this is similar to C/D as I'm talking about an act which occurred in the past, which is the act of "shooting"? If so, since I'm talking about a picture taken/shot in the past, don't you think H would be a better choice?

I'm also a bit confused about G and H. I thought they were both a verb in passive voice and both could also function as an adjective with the difference was only that G was in present tense while H was in past tense. Please enlighten me.
G. Is the picture shot from your new camera? (This picture is shot from your new camera by John.)

H. Was the picture shot from your new camera? (This picture was shot from your new camera by John.)

Avangi · Answer

Anonymoussince I'm talking about a picture taken/shot in the past, don't you think H would be a better choice?

"This cereal is shot from guns." Not, "This cereal was shot from guns"??
There's lots of ambiguity here.

This camera is broken. This camera was broken. What's the difference? Both sentences can have two meanings.
Shall we treat "broken" as an adjective or as a verb?

The choice is up to you. Do you want to focus on what the picture is, or on what happened to it in the past?

Somebody broke my camera last month. (verb)
Yesterday it was still broken, but today it's not broken. (adjectives) Somebody fixed it.

When you treat "shot" as an adjective, it has no tense.

If you find a man lying on the ground with a bullet in him, you can say "He is shot." (adjective)
You didn't hear any gunshot. It happened in the past.
The adjective describes his condition, not what happened to him.

If you want to engage in conjecture, you can use verbs to talk about the past:
He's been shot. He was shot. Etc.

If it were my camera, I'd probably say, "This photo was shot (verb) on my new camera."

Anonymous · Answer

I can now see the difference between them: "shot" as an adjective and "shot" as a verb. Thank you, Avangi, I really appreciate you helping me understand this. Just some questions for clarification...

Avangi"This cereal is shot from guns." Not, "This cereal was shot from guns"??

If "shot" in my 'picture' example and your 'man shot' example can be treated as a verb, why not in the 'cereal' example?

AvangiC. This must be taken with your new camera.
D. This must have been taken with your new camera.

In this case, you're talking about an act which occurred in the past. If you're talking about the photo, use only D.
Also, if I may go back to my C/D example, why can I use only D? Is it not possible to use C where "taken" is treated as an adjective to simply describe the condition of the photo, ie. John: This must be taken with your new camera. Ben: Yes, it is taken with my new camera.

AvangiIf it were my camera, I'd probably say, "This photo was shot (verb) on my new camera."

Incidentally, I noticed you used "shot on my new camera" in your sentence, do you think it is also natural to say "shot with my new camera" or "shot from with my new camera"? If so, is there any difference?

Avangi · Answer

Anonymous
Avangi"This cereal is shot from guns." Not, "This cereal was shot from guns"??
If "shot" in my 'picture' example and your 'man shot' example can be treated as a verb, why not in the 'cereal' example?

Oh, it absolutely can! The problem with these structures is that they can be interpreted in so many ways!
(I intended my double question mark to mean "Why not??" - bad choice.)

When I say "this cereal," do I mean "this brand of cereal," or do I mean "the cereal in this box"?

"This cereal was shot from guns" can be a past tense verb in passive voice.
"This cereal is shot from guns" can be a present tense verb in passive voice,
describing "habitual behavior," or "habituation."
The same sentence can also be interpreted as the verb "to be" plus an adjective complement.

(Ah'll be back!) - A.

Avangi · Answer

Anonymous Is it not possible to use C where "taken" is treated as an adjective to simply describe the condition of the photo

It's possible, yes. You seem to understand the issues here quite well.
I'm not sure at this point why I recommended so strongly against C.

I feel that "shot with my new camera is best. This treats the camera as a tool.

We'd say, "I played an old 78rpm disc on my old record player. I typed this on an old Underwood manual.

With photography, "from" seems to describe the vantage point.

Often these prepositions are interchangeable, but have slightly different senses to different people.

Anonymous · Answer

Thank you very much, Avangi.

Everything is clear to me now. I'm glad you think I seem to understand the issues quite well.

Again, thank you for your time and help in this thread.

Must be vs. must have been

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