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Anonymous Posted 18 years ago
Grammar
must be past perfect?
Hi,
I was looking at an article named "Metropolitan Diary" DATED October 16, 2000 by ENID NEMY from the New York Times and wonder if the past perfect tenses are absolutely required in some of the situations noted.
Passages from the article:
When he said he hadn't seen the item in almost half a century, the owner insisted he take a package without charge. -- To me, the past perfect tense was used in "he hadn't seen the item" since it is using the reported speech of "he say he didn't see the item in almost half a century."
"Finally the shoeshine was finished, and I said, 'It was nice talking to you,' when I suddenly realized that his conversation hadn't been addressed to me. He had been talking on his cellular phone the whole time. Needless to say, I was embarrassed. -- To me, the past perfect use as in "that his conversation hadn't been addressed to me" is good since it denotes the sequence of events as it being previous to the realizing of what happened but could this OK?
... , when I suddenly realized that his conversation wasn't addressed to me. Does it have to be a past perfect tense as Clive seemed to have said something like this rhetorically: If something occurred before something else, why not make it clear?
Then the light dawned and the musician realized trhat Mr. Sweeney was asking about the music and not inquiring about his profession. -- Why is there no need to change to passive past perfect like this since my reading of this is that the asking probably has occurred before Mr. Sweeney's realization -- why not make it passive past perfect here when the noted writer has used past perfect in a previous case although not in passive?? Then the light dawned and the musician realized that Mr. Sweeney had been asking about the music and not had been inquiring about his profession.
I was looking at an article named "Metropolitan Diary" DATED October 16, 2000 by ENID NEMY from the New York Times and wonder if the past perfect tenses are absolutely required in some of the situations noted.
Passages from the article:
When he said he hadn't seen the item in almost half a century, the owner insisted he take a package without charge. -- To me, the past perfect tense was used in "he hadn't seen the item" since it is using the reported speech of "he say he didn't see the item in almost half a century."
"Finally the shoeshine was finished, and I said, 'It was nice talking to you,' when I suddenly realized that his conversation hadn't been addressed to me. He had been talking on his cellular phone the whole time. Needless to say, I was embarrassed. -- To me, the past perfect use as in "that his conversation hadn't been addressed to me" is good since it denotes the sequence of events as it being previous to the realizing of what happened but could this OK?
... , when I suddenly realized that his conversation wasn't addressed to me. Does it have to be a past perfect tense as Clive seemed to have said something like this rhetorically: If something occurred before something else, why not make it clear?
Then the light dawned and the musician realized trhat Mr. Sweeney was asking about the music and not inquiring about his profession. -- Why is there no need to change to passive past perfect like this since my reading of this is that the asking probably has occurred before Mr. Sweeney's realization -- why not make it passive past perfect here when the noted writer has used past perfect in a previous case although not in passive?? Then the light dawned and the musician realized that Mr. Sweeney had been asking about the music and not had been inquiring about his profession.
Top answer
"he hadn't seen the article in almost half a century" - I would use past perfect here. The speaker is describing not a single occurrence but a long period during which he has not seen whatever it is. Yesterday, I looked for Dapper Dan hair jelly at the store and didn't see it.
- "he hadn't seen the article in almost half a century" - I would use past perfect here.
- The speaker is describing not a single occurrence but a long period during which he has not seen whatever it is.
- Yesterday, I looked for Dapper Dan hair jelly at the store and didn't see it.
- I haven't seen Dapper Dan brand for years now.
- Yesterday, he said that he hadn't seen Dapper Dan for years.
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6 Answers
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"he hadn't seen the article in almost half a century" - I would use past perfect here. The speaker is describing not a single occurrence but a long period during which he has not seen whatever it is.
Yesterday, I looked for Dapper Dan hair jelly at the store and didn't see it.
I haven't seen Dapper Dan brand for years now.
Yesterday, he said that he hadn't seen Dapper
Yesterday, I looked for Dapper Dan hair jelly at the store and didn't see it.
I haven't seen Dapper Dan brand for years now.
Yesterday, he said that he hadn't seen Dapper
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Thank you. Can I apply your line of reasoning to this too?
You wrote:
Again without more context, I think the last example doesn't require past perfect for the opposite, or inverse, reason: only Mr. Sweeney's most recent remark is referenced, not the entire conversation. It is a single event. "Was asking" is used instead of "had asked" or simply "asked" to emphasize that the que
You wrote:
Again without more context, I think the last example doesn't require past perfect for the opposite, or inverse, reason: only Mr. Sweeney's most recent remark is referenced, not the entire conversation. It is a single event. "Was asking" is used instead of "had asked" or simply "asked" to emphasize that the que
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Finally the shoeshine was finished, and I said, 'It was nice talking to you,' when I suddenly realized that his conversation hadn't been addressed to me.
The fact that you want to change the above the way you propose only shows you really do not know the exact meaning of the above.
conversation: previous event, realized: current event
A change to
The fact that you want to change the above the way you propose only shows you really do not know the exact meaning of the above.
conversation: previous event, realized: current event
A change to
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He ordered the police to capture them, but they were gone. [their state AT THE TIME of order
> Why not this?
He ordered the police to capture them, but they had left. [the action of leaving PRECEDES the order
You're confusing a state (gone) with an action (had left).
Both are
> Why not this?
He ordered the police to capture them, but they had left. [the action of leaving PRECEDES the order
You're confusing a state (gone) with an action (had left).
Both are
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Then the light dawned and the musician realized trhat Mr. Sweeney was asking about the music and not inquiring about his profession.
>Why is there no need to change to passive past perfect like this since my reading of this is that the asking probably has occurred before Mr. Sweeney's realization
Both versions are possible.
However, the origina
>Why is there no need to change to passive past perfect like this since my reading of this is that the asking probably has occurred before Mr. Sweeney's realization
Both versions are possible.
However, the origina
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Thank you for providing categorical explanations. I will take a good look and if I have any questions, I will try to post again. Thank you, Marius.
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