Modifier or compliment

Question

Hi,A: I can hear a very loud noise coming from the floor above.B: I can hear a very loud noise coming from the floor.My grammar book says the preposition 'above' is modifier in the preposition phrase 'the floor above'.Does the sentence B, which is without 'above', make sense??I mean is it possible for both of these sentences to have the same meaning?

CalifJim · Accepted Answer

jooneyMy grammar book says the preposition 'above' is a modifier in the preposition phrase 'from the floor above'.

Your grammar book is correct. (Surprise, surprise.) 'above' is a modifier there.

jooneyDoes the sentence B, which is without 'above', make sense??

Yes, it makes sense.

jooneyI mean is it possible for both of these sentences to have the same meaning?

No. They both make sense, but the meanings are different.

In a noise coming from the floor above, floor means an entire level of a building.

In a noise coming from the floor, floor means the part of the room that you walk on.

In the first case you look up to see where the noise is coming from.

In the second case you look down to see where the noise is coming from.

CJ

Jooney · Answer

Thank you for the quick reply, Califjim.

But I still don't understand why it is a modifier.

The name of the grammar book I consult is The Cambridge Grammar of the English Language by Huddelston and Pullum and the authors say the following about compliments:

A word or a phrase is a compliment if

1. it is obligatory

1) The element is obligatory if it can't be omitted without loss of grammaticality.

ex)

A: She perused the report.(O)

B: She perused.(X)

So the NP 'the report' is a compliment.

2) The element is obligatory if it can't be omitted without an unsystematic change of meaning.

A: She ran the business.

B: She ran.

We have a different sense of 'run' in B, so the NP 'the business' is a compliment.

2. it is not obligatory, but still can be a compliment

ex)

A: I know the answer to this problem.(any other types of prepositions not allowed here)

B: Many people agree to a school ban on sugary drinks.(the same as above)

My question is this:

If the sentences from the original example don't have the same meaning, then why is it that the preposition 'above' is a modifier?: it is a violation of the rule 1. 2)

Could you explain in detail why it is a modifier instead of a compiment?

p.s. please take note that I was referring to the preposition 'above' as a modifier in the noun phrase 'the floor'.

CalifJim · Answer

jooneyBut I still don't understand why it is a modifier.

Given that lengthy explanation, I don't understand it either. I just solved the problem intuitively, without thinking about all those rules you quoted. Are the rules from the same book as the book that says 'above' is a modifier?

The only thing I know for sure is that the word is complement, not compliment.

CJ

Jooney · Answer

Are the rules from the same book as the book that says 'above' is a modifier?

@Yes. They are from the same book. Sometimes I get frustrated by the fact that they don't provide adequate explanations for some things. I wish I could ask the authors about clarifications of some conepts/examples, but you know they don't take questions from readers. Anyway, thank you for helping me out again! I really appreciate it.

CalifJim · Answer

I thought about this a little more. I wonder if the authors would claim that the change in the meaning of floor that I pointed out is not really an "unsystematic change of meaning", so maybe their "Test 1.2" for a complement doesn't apply. I'm not clear on the definition of "unsystematic" in that context.

CJ

Jooney · Answer

Hello CJ,

Here is what they say about that 'unsystematic change of meaning'.

ex) He didn't look at them.

"The preposition here is not replaceable without an unsystematic change in the meaning: the difference in meaning between He didn't look at them and He didn't look for them is not fully derivable from the difference between 'at' and 'for'."

And here is another example of a prepositon being a modifier in a noun phrase.

the temperature outside

Thank you.

Jooney · Answer

There are more examples related to the concepts of complements.

ex) He threw it to Pat.

ex) He set out with sufficient food.

"Here we have a choice of preposition: He threw it to/towards/past Pat and He set out with/without sufficent food. Here with/without is an adjunct while to/towards/past is still a complement as it is licensed by throw, but it is less clearly a complement."

I think they say the preposition 'above' in the NP 'the floor above' is a modifier because it can be replaced with another preposition 'below'.

I guess it is a little different from the I look at them and I look for them example because here changing the prepositon 'above' to 'below' doesn't change the meaning of 'floor'.

CalifJim · Answer

jooneyI think they say the preposition 'above' in the NP 'the floor above' is a modifier because it can be replaced with another preposition 'below'.

I think you are on the right track here. At least your reasoning seems correct to me.

CJ

Anonymous · Answer

A. In this sentence, the phrase "the floor above" means the entire floor that is above your room. Thus, exactly where the sound is coming from is not specifically identified. For example, if there are ten rooms on each floor, the sound could be coming from any one of the ten rooms on the floor above--but exactly which room, is not determined.

B. This sentence, without further qualification, would generally mean that you're hearing a loud noise coming from the floor of the room above your room. For example, someone in the room above could be running some kind of machinery, which would cause the floor to vibrate. This sentence is awkward as it stands, because "the floor" could conceivably mean the floor in your room. As it stands, sentence B cannot mean the same thing as sentence A, that is, that the noise is coming from the entire floor above.

Modifier or compliment

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