Modification

Question

Remedial activities and products like air filters, bottled water, eye drops, and other things we need to combat degraded services all add to the gross domestic product (GDP), which economists equate to progress.

Question #1. About 'remedial', does it modify both activities and products? Or it modifies 'activities' only?

Question #2. About '(that/which) we need', which does it refer to?
a: other things only
b: air filters, bottled water, eye drops, and other things
c: products like air filters, bottled water, eye drops, and other things
d: activities and products like air filters, bottled water, eye drops, and other things

Avangi · Accepted Answer

"Remedial" modifies "activities and products." Eg, eye drops are remedial, and they combat degraded services like smog prevention.

I'm not sure how to answer #2. (what does it refer to?)
You can approach it simantically or grammatically.
Simantically, we need all of the aforementioned activities and products to combat degraded services.
Grammatically, I'd say it refers to "other things."

Taka · Answer

Avangi"Remedial" modifies "activities and products."

Thanks for the comments, Avangi. I have two questions to ask

#1 If "remedial" modifies both "activities and products", then "like air filters, bottled water, eye drops, and other things we need to combat degraded services" also modifies both. It seems that the items listed after "like" are products but I'm not sure if they can be called "activities". Do you think they can also be called "activities"?

#2 If "remedial" also modifies "products", then it will be "remedial products like air filters....and other things we need to combat degraded services." But semantically, those things listed after "like" that combat degraded services can be seen as remedial. Wouldn't "remedial products that combat degraded services=remedial products that are remedial" be kind of redundant?

Avangi · Answer

Your first sentence at #1 is not true. The rules of grammar can often be expressed as formulas, but when it comes to what modifies what, common sense usually trumps grammar.

Wonderful medicines and people like Dr.Jones and Reverend Smith have made my recovery possible. .
Does "wonderful" modify both "medicines" and "people"? Probably, but not necessarily.
Does "like Jones and Smith" modify both "medicines" and "people"? Definitely not.
When we write, we must be constantly on the alert to avoid ambiguities. Sometimes we succeed; sometimes we fail.

In your excerpt, there are no examples of activities offered. We have only examples of products. (The author refers to them as "things," which is a word not often associated with activities.)
A remedial activitycould be something like setting up recording sensors to monitor the pollution in the air.

TakaRemedial activities and products like air filters, bottled water, eye drops, and other things we need to combat degraded services all add to the gross domestic product (GDP), which economists equate to progress.

Redundancy is not always bad. We often explain things in more than one way. It's okay to define the category of "other things," showing how they qualify as "remedial."

Taka · Answer

Avangi:Wonderful medicines and people like Dr.Jones and Reverend Smith have made my recovery possible. .Does "wonderful" modify both "medicines" and "people"? Probably, but not necessarily.

So you think it's ambiguous whether "remedial" modifies both "activities" and "products" or "activities" alone?

Does "like Jones and Smith" modify both "medicines" and "people"? Definitely not.

Does it mean that there is a possibility that "remedial" modifies both but "like" modifies "products" alone?

Avangi · Answer

I seem to have muddied the waters.
What I think is that you need to consider the meanings of the words and try to figure out what this guy could be trying to say that makes sense. The structure of this sentence isn't really going to help you much to grasp the meaning.

TakaRemedial activities and products like air filters, bottled water, eye drops, and other things we need to combat degraded services all add to the gross domestic product (GDP), which economists equate to progress.

My common sense tells me that this is about fixing a problem, and about how we should look at the business of paying for it.
The things we do and the things we need to fix the problem may all be describes as "remedial."
In this particular sentence, "remedial" refers to both activities and products. In another sentence with the identical structure, the leading adjective might not modify both of the following nouns. You need to apply common sense.

"Like" refers to that list of products. Air filters and eye drops are not activities.

Yes, you got my point with the Jones and Smith example.

You can't always rely on the structure of the sentence to tell you exactly what modifiers refer to.

Taka · Answer

AvangiWhat I think is that you need to consider the meanings of the words and try to figure out what this guy could be trying to say"Like" refers to that list of products. Air filters and eye drops are not activities.

So might it be that what the author had in mind first was "remedial activities+remedial products" but right at the moment he wrote "products" he thought he should give examples of "products", not really thinking about "activities", and then he put "like like air filters, bottled water..." after "products"?

Avangi · Answer

We can well wonder and speculate as to why he found it necessary to give examples of the "products," but did not see fit to give examples of the "activities."
Anyway, that's what he did.

I concur on your analysis.

Taka · Answer

Good.

Finally, an additional question. This is from the same text.
(For your information, here is the original: webapps.icma.org/pm/9106/public/cover.cfm)

...these forests provide many services, including habitat for plants and animals, recreation, and others that, if assigned a monetary value, could completely change the way we use them.

Do you think "that" in bold modifies "others" only as the one in brackets of Question #2 above that you say modifies "other things" alone?

Avangi · Answer

It's of course ambiguous, which situation could possibly be improved by punctuation.

Again using common sense, I believe "that" refers to "services."

Sometimes you need to read the whole sentence before earlier parts of it make sense.

I think I've learned to put certain phrases on the shelf until I reach the end. It eventually becomes automatic.

Taka · Answer

Avangi.Again using common sense, I believe "that" refers to "services."

Do you mean your idea is the same as this? Grammatically, it refers to "others"?

Simantically, we need all of the aforementioned activities and products to combat degraded services.
Grammatically, I'd say it refers to "other things."

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