Modal "would": Cases involving past use of "will"

Question

Hi. I think it has been said that the modal "would" is a past form of "will" but that would seem like over-generalizing to me since there seem to be many categories of its use as given by many grammar sources. Two of such categories would be, if you asked me, conditional and repetition in past. Examples involving the conditional use of "would" and involving repetition in past (as mentioned previously in categories) wouldn't seem to be characteristic of what I have been hearing some people say -- that the modal "would" is a past form of "will."

Are these reflect the past use of "will"?

1. I knew she would spend the money if she had some. -- To me, the conditional "she would spend the money if she had money" has a present time implication... but on second thoughts, could we think of this as denoting future from the past? Confused.

2. I knew she would be a good lawyer. -- Is the present version of this this? I know she will be a good lawyer.

3. He was told these guidelines for his visit: He would not be allowed to bring any snacks from outside and were to wear a uniform when attending classes. He would have to bring pens and pencils to classes.

CalifJim · Accepted Answer

Anonymous I think it has been said that the modal "would" is a past form of "will" but that would seem like over-generalizing to me since there seem to be many categories of its use as given by many grammar sources.

I don't think that when people say that would serves as the past of will they mean that no other usage of would is possible! I don't think that statement should be taken as a generalization. It's only a statement of one of the uses of would.

Be clear though: "would is the past of will" does not mean that would is in the past. Both are future conceptually. will is the future of the present, and would is the future of the past.

Anonymousconditional and repetition in past.

Yes. These are two more uses of would.

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Your second and third examples are clear examples of would as a future of the past. They are backshifts of the present forced by the use of a main verb in the past.

I know she will ...
I knew she would ...

I explain these guidelines: He will be allowed ... and he will have to ... and he will ...
I explained these guidelines: He would be allowed ... and he would have to ... and he would ...
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The first example is a bit more complicated. There are three basic forms of a conditional statement.

She will spend the money if she has some.
She would spend the money if she had some.
She would have spent the money if she had had some.

Two of these can be preceded by a verb in the present or in the past.

1. I know she will spend the money if she has some.
2. I know she would spend the money if she had some.
3. I knew she would spend the money if she had some.
4. I know she would have spent the money if she had had some.
5. I knew she would have spent the money if she had had some.

Your concern is with 3. This can be taken in two ways, with these approximate meanings:

( a ) I surmised (before there was a chance that it might happen) that she was probably going to spend the money if she had some. But I didn't know whether she had some.
( b ) I am not surprised by the fact that she spent the money. Her behavior confirms what I knew, namely, that she would spend the money if she had some. It turns out that she had some, and she spent it.

CJ

Anonymous · Answer

Hi. I think you were the person who taught me that these three words "felt", "thought" and "knew" almost always are followed by a past tense. Then, following on your recommendation, I felt the sentence "I knew she would spend the money if she had some" should be followed by a past tense, unless this was an exception that I didn't know about.

Anyway, I think this can be stated this way:

1.I knew all human beings breathed.
2.I knew all human beings breath.
3.I thought all human beings breathed.
4.I thought all human beings breath.

Of the four, I think no. 4 is not OK. I think the word "thought" is almost always (can't think of an exception) by a past tense, whereas the word "knew" is not so limiting.

So, I think the sentence pattern of "I knew she would spend the money if she had some" would be analoguous to "I knew all human beings breath."

CalifJim · Answer

1.I knew all human beings breathed.
2.I knew all human beings breathe.
3.I thought all human beings breathed.
4.I thought all human beings breathe.

Of the four, I think no. 4 is not OK. I think the word "thought" is almost always (can't think of an exception) by a past tense, whereas the word "knew" is not so limiting.

That's a reasonable approach. In rare circumstances with the right context, I imagine that even 4. could come up, so I don't want to advise you that it is absolutely impossible, but you are correct in general about thought.

So, I think the sentence pattern of "I knew she would spend the money if she had some" would be analoguous to "I knew all human beings breathe."

In a way, I suppose. The if clause complicates matters, but if it helps you to think in terms of that analogy, then I guess it's OK to think of it that way.

CJ

Modal "would": Cases involving past use of "will"

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