Misuse of the word irony (again)

Question

Had a discussion with someone about whether or not a use of the word 'irony' was wrong.
The article in question is here:
http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/media/story.jsp?story=533945

The gist of the usage is:
"It's a sad irony .. that Douglas plays an immortal character (given that he is dead)."
Is this ironic? I don't think so. A recording of someone playing an immortal character can be around after the person has died, and there is nothing unexpected or unusual about this!
Opinions?
alex

Usenet · Accepted Answer

[nq:1]Had a discussion with someone about whether or not a use of the word 'irony' was wrong. The article in ... immortal character can be around after the person has died, and there is nothing unexpected or unusual about this! Opinions?[/nq]
I agree. "Appropriate" would have been enough, or "fitting," but "irony" sets up an expectation of something more unusual, while the "sad" I can't account for at all. They're just sad the guy is dead and couldn't do the role in person? Does not compute.

Best - Donna Richoux

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]Had a discussion with someone about whether or not a use of the word 'irony' was wrong. The article in ... an immortal character can be around after the person has died, and there is nothing unexpected or unusual about this![/nq]
I've pretty much come to the conclusion that 'irony' has been skunked. As it begins to enter its twilight years, perhaps we can remember a little of what it used to mean?
OED:
1. A figure of speech in which the intended meaning is the opposite ofthat expressed by the words used; usually taking the form of sarcasm or ridicule ...

1837 Macaulay Ess., Bacon (1887) 428 A drayman, in a passion, calls out,'You are a pretty fellow', without suspecting that he is uttering irony.
2.fig. A condition of affairs or events of a character opposite to whatwas, or might naturally be, expected; a contradictory outcome of events as if in mockery of the promise and fitness of things.
1833 Thirlwall in Philol. Museum II. 483 (title) On the Irony ofSophocles. Ibid. 493 The contrast between man with his hopes, fears, wishes, and undertakings, and a dark, inflexible fate, affords abundant room for the exhibition of tragic irony.
irony, n. Add: (2.) spec. in Theatr. (freq. as "dramatic or "tragic irony), the incongruity created when the (tragic) significance of a character's speech or actions is revealed to the audience but unknown to the character concerned;

1957 Encycl. Brit. XII. 683/2 In tragedy, what is called 'tragic irony'is the device of making a character use words which mean one thing to him and another to those acquainted with the real issue. ==
So Douglas Adams' appearance as Agrajag couldn't be shoehorned into (1) above, but it touches (2) at a tangent and seems tailor-made for the Addition as listeners will hear a man who died a premature death speak of immortality.

John Dean
Oxford

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John Dean filted:
[nq:1]So Douglas Adams' appearance as Agrajag couldn't be shoehorned into (1) above, but it touches (2) at a tangent and seems tailor-made for the Addition as listeners will hear a man who died a premature death speak of immortality.[/nq]
How about John Belushi's appearance as an old man in that film they made for the second season of SNL?...shows him walking around the cemetery looking at the graves of all his co-stars and wondering why he's the only one left..

Not ironic, but definitely creepy, was an episode of Burns & Allen's radio show where George goes to the wrong doctor for what he thinks is an insurance physical...before he arrives, the doctors are discussing an experimental treatment which, if it works, will let the subject live to be a hundred...listening to the tape of this in the car shortly after Burns died in real life I very nearly drove off the road..r

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]irony, n. Add: (2.) spec. in Theatr. (freq. as "dramatic or "tragic irony), the incongruity created when the (tragic) significance ... making a character use words which mean one thing to him and another to those acquainted with the real issue.[/nq]
The dividing line looks definitely cultural, not a question of accepting or not the "addition": At least in the US, it seems that we have a huge majority of people who do not accept (or do not know about) denotation #1 and limit "irony" strictly to #2, viz: "2.fig. A condition of affairs or events of a character opposite to what
was, or might naturally be, expected; a contradictory outcome of events
as if in mockery of the promise and fitness of things."

and a very small minority who reserve "irony" to acception #1 (and sometimes add.) only, i.e. people who use only set phrases like "irony of fate", "strange turn of events", etc. for #2.
I have a vague (unconfirmed) expectation that the proportions should be different on your side of the Ocean.

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]Had a discussion with someone about whether or not a use of the word 'irony' was wrong. The article in ... of the usage is: "It's a sad irony .. that Douglas plays an immortal character (given that he is dead)."[/nq]
Michael Douglas is dead?

Usenet · Answer

[nq:2]Had a discussion with someone about whether or not a ... and there is nothing unexpected or unusual about this! Opinions?[/nq]
[nq:1]I agree. "Appropriate" would have been enough, or "fitting," but "irony" sets up an expectation of something more unusual, while the "sad" I can't account for at all. They're just sad the guy is dead and couldn't do the role in person? Does not compute.[/nq]
well i have learnt something new.
I always thought Irony described a metal texture. same as bronzy or goldy.

Usenet · Answer

steve redled:
[nq:1]well i have learnt something new. I always thought Irony described a metal texture. same as bronzy or goldy.[/nq]
Or tiny.

Peter Moylan peter at ee dot newcastle dot edu dot au http://eepjm.newcastle.edu.au (OS/2 and eCS information and software)

Usenet · Answer

[nq:2]Had a discussion with someone about whether or not a ... Douglas plays an immortal character (given that he is dead)."[/nq]
[nq:1]Michael Douglas is dead?[/nq]
Is that supposed to be ironic, or something?
Edward

The reading group's reading group:
http://www.bookgroup.org.uk

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[nq:1]Michael Douglas is dead?[/nq]
Catherine Zeta-Jones is back on the market?

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[nq:2]Michael Douglas is dead?[/nq]
[nq:1]Is that supposed to be ironic, or something?[/nq]
Don't you think?

Misuse of the word irony (again)

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