Missed vs. Have missed

Question

"Listen Donna, I don't care if you missed the bus this morning.You have been late to work too many times. You are fired! ."According to grammar books, you could also use the present perfect with the time period that is not finished (this morning, this year and so on...).So what is the main reason why the present perfect ("you have missed") couldn't be another alternative here?Thank you very much.

Terryxpress · Accepted Answer

Your question has really helped me!

When native speakers try to explain the Present Perfect, we say things like, 'because the event still has an effect/consequences for the present'.

Crikey! But doesn't 'missing the bus' have such an effect? - you've just been fired because of it!
Anyone in the forum like to express their perspective? (because this is a great question!)

LouiST · Answer

Marold"Listen Donna, I don't care if you missed the bus this morning.You have been late to work too many times. You are fired! ."According to grammar books, you could also use the present perfect with the time period that is not finished (this morning, this year and so on...).So what is the main reason why the present perfect ("you have missed") couldn't be another alternative here?

I'm not sure, but I guess it's conditional. And 'if + have + past participle' doesn't even exist.
Anyway,
Have you seen her this morning? - It's still morning.
Did you see her this morning? - It may be afternoon or evening. But it's not morning anymore.

LS

Regards · Answer

Hi,

MaroldListen, Donna, I don't care if you missed the bus this morning ("today in the morning").

Here, missing the bus is a one-time event that finished in a specific time in the past.

That's why the simple past is used.

Regards

Dimsumexpress · Answer

Marold"Listen Donna, I don't care if you missed the bus this morning.You have been late to work too many times. You are fired! ."

Hi,
With this context, simple past is the only correct answer. This morning- suggests implies past, from the time of the her getting fired.

MaroldSo what is the main reason why the present perfect ("you have missed") couldn't be another alternative here?

Just remember this simple rule, when using present perfect, do not use past time markers along with it (i.e. last night,yesterday, last month and ...you get the picture).

However, I believe past perfect is possible because the sequence of events was: she missed the bus, she arrived work late, her boss shewed her out and fired her. So in a narrative scenario, past perfect is an permissible alternative.

Listen Donna, I don't care if you had missed the bus this morning.You have been late to work too many times. You are fired! ."

Marold · Answer

Thank you all very much.<img class='emoticon' style='Width:19px;Height:19px;' data-delaysrc='https://uat-englishforward-forums-backend.s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/Emoticons/5.gif' src='https://uat-englishforward-forums-backend.s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/Emoticons/5.gif' alt='Emotion: wink'/>

Everlastinghope · Answer

You're right Terry,I 've always been taught that present perfect is used for an action that an effect,a result in present moment.Thus,Someone has missed the bus,consequently she/he has been fired= she/he doesn't have a job(present result).
Hope natives will explain more.

Everlastinghope · Answer

louiSTI'm not sure, but I guess it's conditional. And 'if + have + past participle' doesn't even exist.

Present perfect in "if clause" exists.What differentiates between present perfect and present perfect in "if clause",is that the first one is used for completed actions or still going on to the present.However,present perfect in "if clause" is used for completed actions in the future.
Examples:
If you have moved to your new house next week,I'll visit you.
But in the example given by Marold,the action of missing happened in the morning and now she's fired.
I think if there wasn't "if",we would rather say:

you have missed the bus and now you're fired.

Dimsumexpress · Answer

I'm not sure, but I guess it's conditional. And 'if + have + past participle' doesn't even exist.

Hi louiST,Yes it does, We use this type of structure to imply an assumed action which is expected.
If you have finished your PowerPoint sometime today, please email to me. We must have it for tomorrow's meeting.
The simple present form ( conditional type 1) also works: If you finish your PowerPoint presentation, I will appreciate it if you email it to me before 5 today.

There is a subtle usage difference which depends on the writer's perspective and expectation.

Cond- 1with perfect construction. Mother: Michael, you can not go out to play unless you have finished all your homework - She expected Michael to do that.

LouiST · Answer

Hi,
Thanks!
Do you know which conditional type 'If you have finished your PowerPoint sometime today' is?
Because I only know these

:
zero conditional: If I finish my PP today, I send it to you.
first conditional: If I finish my PP today, I will send it to you.
2nd conditional: If I finished my PP today, I would send it to you.
3rd conditional: If I had finished my PP yesterday, I would have sent it to you.

Thanks in advance

LS

Dimsumexpress · Answer

Cond- 1, with perfect construction.
Let's look at it this way:

'If you have your PowerPoint finished sometime today' is?

Missed vs. Have missed

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