Meg forced June not to swim.

Question

I don't understand how to use "not to."Are the following sentences incorrect?#1. Meg forced June not to swim.#2. Meg got June not to swim.#3. Meg had June not to swim.#4. Meg wanted June not to swim.I think they are correct but nobody says they are correct.

Avangi · Accepted Answer

I think they're all okay except #3.  Meg had June refrain from swimming.  Don't ask me why!

Northwind · Answer

Wow! How quick and how clear!
Thanks!

Can I ask a little more?
I don't understand how to use "not to."
Are the following sentences incorrect?

#1. Meg let Jannet not to swim.
#2. Meg made Jannet not to swim.
#3. Meg let Jannet not swim.
#4. Meg made Jannet not swim.

I think they are incorrect.

Avangi · Answer

I think you're right. #4 is okay grammatically, but not natural.

Meg asked Janet not to swim.
Meg begged Janet not to swim.
Meg told Janet not to swim.
Meg urged Janet not to swim.
Meg forced Janet not to swim.
Janet told Meg she'd rather not swim.
Janet told Meg she will not swim.

Northwind · Answer

Wow!
Clear reply and so many examples!

Thanks!

BarbaraPA · Answer

None of these are natural to me.
She didn't let her swim, she kept her from swimming, she ensured she did not swim - but "she forced her not to swim" and most of the other combinations, although grammatical as indicated by Avangi, are simply not what a native would be likely to say.

CalifJim · Answer

I would rephrase every one of them, thus:
#1. Meg forced June not to swim. Meg [prevented / kept / stopped] June from swimming.

#2. Meg got June not to swim. Meg persuaded June not to swim.

#3. Meg had June not to swim. Meg arranged for June not to swim. Meg told June not to swim.

#4. Meg wanted June not to swim. Meg didn't want June to swim.
Just being grammatical isn't enough; they have to be idiomatic as well.

CJ

Avangi · Answer

northwindI don't understand how to use "not to."

CalifJimI would rephrase every one of them, thus:

#1. Meg forced June not to swim. Meg [prevented / kept / stopped] June from swimming.

#4. Meg wanted June not to swim. Meg didn't want June to swim.

Just being grammatical isn't enough; they have to be idiomatic as well. Hi, Jim. Is there a "not to" solution for these?

Best regards, - A.

CalifJim · Answer

AvangiIs there a "not to" solution for these?

Hi, Avangi! I'm not sure what you mean by "solution".
You mean a paraphrase of the originals that uses "not to", I suppose.
I find both examples to be "borderline grammatical" as is. They seem syntactically sound, but semantically anomalous.
To my ear, the verb "force" suggests a positive impulse toward the accomplishment of some goal. The negative goal implied by "not to" seems to contradict this basic meaning of "force". Maybe a little research in a thesaurus would turn up a verb that is more appropriate semantically and yet accepts the negative infinitive syntactically, but off-hand, I don't know of one. Most verbs of "forceful blocking" or "forceful barring" of actions take the "from + gerund" construction.

As for wanting the non-completion of actions, English almost always "raises the negation" into the main clause -- hence, the scarcity of constructions like "want (someone) not to ...", and the great frequency of "not want (someone) to ...", which are sematically equivalent. (Incidentally, think operates the same way, as you probably already know.) Semantically, prefer is not exactly the same as want, but it will take a negative infinitive: Meg preferred June not to swim. (Nevertheless, ... preferred that she not swim is also a frequent choice -- though not the construction you're looking for.)
CJ

Avangi · Answer

Thanks Jim. I see your point. I have to learn to take Ronald Regan's advice, "Just say no." Those two don't work. Your explanation is very clear. I never could have justified it to the OP.

- A.

Meg forced June not to swim.

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