Meaning?

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CalifJimanonymousAfter he saw the movie, he said, “I didn’t like the movie at all”. And I tell him, “I thought you would have liked the movie.” Is my sentence ‘I thought you would have liked the movie.’ correct?Yes. Your sentence is correct.a: I thought he would have liked the movie.To me sentence a:1: focuses on a specific time (even?) like watching a movie in the sentence.I think you're saying that you're using the time of watching the movie as the anchor time (reference time which other times will relate to). OK. 2: is a future perfect in the past meaning watching the movie happened after ‘thought’.Yes. That's how I see the time relationships. We agree.CJIn my sentence above, you do agree that watching the movie happened after ‘thought’. Do you agree the same with the sentence below as well when it comes what time relationships since they have the same sentence structure and definitely they are not third conditionals?a: I knew you would have let him know about it. (Letting him know happened after ‘knew’)b: I thought he would have been a pretty good guy for the group. (Having been a good guy happened ‘thought’)But you did said this about the sentence b thought and I quote, “All I can say is that 'would have' sounds farther in the past for me. In a, I get the impression that 'would have been' is before the time of 'I thought'. In b, I feel that 'would' and 'I thought' are at about the same time.” This explanation shows that having been a pretty good guy happened before ‘I thought’ which contradicts your agreement with my explanation. I am confused.

Mr. Tom · Accepted Answer

Your determination and willingness to help is/are to die for, CJ! I am really impressed.

Hats off to you!

Tom

CalifJim · Answer

anonymousBut you did said this about the sentence b thought and I quote, “All I can say is that 'would have' sounds farther in the past for me. In a, I get the impression that 'would have been' is before the time of 'I thought'. In b, I feel that 'would' and 'I thought' are at about the same time.”

You are muddying the waters by posting a different a and b than I was commenting on.

Your a and b both have would have. Neither sentence has just would. And the commentary that I made is a contrast between plain would (sounds closer in the past) and would have (sounds farther in the past).

The correct a and b are as follows:

a: I thought he would have been a pretty good guy for the group.
b: I thought he would be a pretty good guy for the group.

anonymousThis explanation shows that having been a pretty good guy happened before ‘I thought’

Again you seem to be confusing examples that contain would (but not have) with examples that contain would have.

In any case, the difference in time is not absolutely crucial in these constructions, and I don't see why you feel the need to pin down the exact timing. As I explained above, sometimes the difference between the simple tense and the corresponding perfect tense is just a matter of the speaker's personal choice. So the speaker has no desire to express some complicated time relationship by choosing one or the other form of the verb.

Sometimes you seem to be looking for something where there is nothing to find.

The main take-away from our discussion is that in sentences like

... knew that ... would have ...
... thought that ... would have ...

the knowing or thinking precede the action we know or think is going to happen.

Moreover, changing would have to plain would doesn't change the meaning much. To some natives (like me) would have sounds like it may be farther in the past than would, but that's a personal impression that may differ from one speaker to another, and it's not directly related to any exact meaning difference of the words themselves (would vs would have) in the given context.

anonymousI am confused.

Well, yes, I believe you are. Maybe you need to draw some kind of diagram for yourself, mapping out knew and thought vs would and would have, comparing all with the same residue (i.e., the rest of the sentence).

As I have suggested before, maybe you should stop driving yourself crazy for a while. There are great many other aspects of English grammar you should be exploring. Work on something else and come back to would and would have later when you can take a fresh look at them.

CJ

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