Me, I and Irene

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OK quick!Jim and I or Jim and me what is the rule - in basic english - where I will finally under stand this!

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[nq:1]OK quick! Jim and I or Jim and me what is the rule - in basic english - where Iwill finally under stand this![/nq]
Are you interested in "traditional grammar" or actual grammar?

"Jim and I" is used when the combination is the subject of a phrase or sentence, "Jim and me" when the combination is the object of a phrase or sentence.
"Jim and I went downtown."
"George saw Jim and me downtown."
The one widespread exception to this traditional rule is when the verb being used is a copulative verb, such as "is":
"Who is it?"
"It's Jim and me."
That's how I would say it. "It's Jim and I" sounds silly. "Traditional grammar," however, would require "Jim and I" to be used there.

In both traditional grammar and actual usage, it is considered polite to put "I" or "me" second in the combination.
"I and John arrived." is considered impolite.
"John and I arrived." is the polite form.
I have a question: Why do you write "english" instead of "English"? Isn't the appropriate capitalization of language names, including the word "English," one of the first things you learn when you begin to learn English? (You are not the only one who has posted to this newsgroup whose failure to capitalize language names has puzzled me.)

Raymond S. Wise
Minneapolis, Minnesota USA
E-mail: mplsray @ yahoo . com

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[nq:1]Jim and I or Jim and me what is the rule - in basic english - where I will finally under stand this![/nq]
Split it up and see if it sounds right
For instance:
"Jim and I are good chess players"
Corect, because:
"Jim is a good chess player"
"I am a good chess player" You can't say "Me am a good player"

And:
"Dieting is good for Jim and me"
Correct because you can't say "Dieting is good for I"
Bob G

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Jim and I both went to our teacher's home yesterday. Our teacher invited Jim and me to her home yesterday.

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Jim and I both went to our teacher's home yesterday. Our teacher invited Jim and me to her home yesterday.

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[nq:1]Jim and I both went to our teacher's home yesterday. Our teacher invited Jim and me to her home yesterday.[/nq]
Yes, you've got it.
In Australia the proscription against saying or writing "Our teacher invited Jim and I" is not as strong as it is elsewhere, and you will hear it and see it
in fairly respectable quarters. There is at least
one influential Australian writing handbook
that excuses the usage on the grounds that "Jim
and I" is seen as a single entity rather than two
individuals or something like that.
I believe this is what Barry Humphries satirises when he has Dame Edna say "Well, excuse I!"

Michael West
Melbourne, Australia
(In the shadow of the You-Yangs)

Usenet · Answer

[nq:2]Jim and I both went to our teacher's home yesterday. Our teacher invited Jim and me to her home yesterday.[/nq]
Another way to remember it:
We do something to them = Jim and I do something to them.

They do something to us = They do something to Jim and me.

In other words:
"Jim and I" = "we."
"Jim and me" = us.

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I try to reply about the capitalization of language names : We do not capitalize language names i French : We say in French "Je parle anglais" = I speak English.
PCGARTS could be a French man or uses to write in French. N.B. : We would not capitalize the F in the above sentence in French.

Well, every country has his usage !
But I agree that we should know that you capitalize the language names.

An other difference : You write IRAQ. We write IRAK !!

Regards
Claude

Claude Brunet
Toulon France
http://perso.club-internet.fr/clbrunet

"Raymond S. Wise" (Email Removed) a écrit dans le message

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[nq:2]Jim and I both went to our teacher's home yesterday. Our teacher invited Jim and me to her home yesterday.[/nq]
[nq:1]Yes, you've got it. In Australia the proscription against saying or writing "Our teacher invited Jim and I" is not ... something like that. I believe this is what Barry Humphries satirises when he has Dame Edna say "Well, excuse I!"[/nq]
"Between you and I" is grammatical in the dialect of those people who use it(1). Such people do not use "I" or "he" as the objects of a preposition. So "between you and I" must invoke some rule such as that you mention: One way of putting it is to say that "I" is used when that pronoun is used in coordination with another pronoun.
The AHD4 says the following on the subject:
From
http://www.bartleby.com/64/C001/052.html#PRONOUNSPERS
(quote)
In fact, the rule outlawing between you and I did not get written until the 1860s. It has since become part of standard schoolroom grammar. Writing between you and I is now widely regarded as a sign of ignorance, even though the phrase occurs quite often in speech. So don't feel bad if you catch yourself saying it. Just remember: if you want to avoid trouble, stick to between you and me in formal speech and writing.

(end quote)
I would point out to the original poster, pcgarts, that "between you and I" is the sort of usage which he should avoid unless he really understands the usage and is comfortable with using it. (The same is true in the case of slang.) He should also know that many people have a passionate dislike for the usage I did myself at one time.
Note:
(1) Or, to head off discussions of what is a "dialect," "in the lect of people who use it," as I once put it.

Raymond S. Wise
Minneapolis, Minnesota USA
E-mail: mplsray @ yahoo . com

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Moi aussi, je parle français(1). But one of the first things I was told when I began to learn to write French was that the names of languages are not capitalized in that language. I would expect someone first learning to write English to be told early on that language names are capitalized in this language. That is why it surprised me that the original poster did not capitalize "english," although he correctly capitalized other words.
Note:
(1) See
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=group:fr.lettres.langue.anglaise+mplsray&h l=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sa=G&scoring=d
or
http://tinyurl.com/jl7u

Raymond S. Wise
Minneapolis, Minnesota USA
E-mail: mplsray @ yahoo . com

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Okay, so this one time? In band camp? Raymond S. Wise was all, like:
[nq:1]"Between you and I" is grammatical in the dialect of those people who use it(1). Such people do not use "I" or "he" as the objects of a preposition.[/nq]
Can you introduce me to these people?...I'd like a word with they..r

Me, I and Irene

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