"Make the nut"

Question

OK. There's a fierce battle brewing in my family surrounding the phrase, "Make the nut". The phrase literally means "covering one's expenses", as in a business sense, but can be more loosely used to convey the idea of "making the grade" or "living up to a certain standard".
Anyone out there ever heard of this expression? It is a bit obscure, but I'm certain it exists. If anyone knows of it, can you point me towards some sort of documentation?
TIA
Ken

Ken Mahler
ACT! Certified Consultant
ACT! Premier Trainer
Cincinnati, OH
www.OhioACTpros.com

Usenet · Accepted Answer

[nq:1]OK. There's a fierce battle brewing in my family surrounding the phrase, "Make the nut". The phrase literally means "covering ... obscure, but I'm certain it exists. If anyone knows of it, can you point me towards some sort of documentation?[/nq]
For some reason it makes me think of poker, if that's any help.

SML

Usenet · Answer

[nq:2]OK. There's a fierce battle brewing in my family surrounding ... it, can you point me towards some sort of documentation?[/nq]
[nq:1]For some reason it makes me think of poker, if that's any help.[/nq]
It's the tenth meaning of "nut" as a noun in M-W ll:
10 : the amount of money that must be earned in order to break even

I don't think it has to be a three-word phrase "making" it would simply mean you had made that much, you had earned back your starting cost.
I've heard it somewhere, though I can't remember what circumstances. Not very often.

Best Donna Richoux

Usenet · Answer

[nq:2]OK. There's a fierce battle brewing in my family surrounding ... it, can you point me towards some sort of documentation?[/nq]
[nq:1]For some reason it makes me think of poker, if that's any help.[/nq]
I answered this at tedious length over on AEU. Feel free to ignore me.

Liebs

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]OK. There's a fierce battle brewing in my family surrounding the phrase, "Make the nut". The phrase literally means "covering ... obscure, but I'm certain it exists. If anyone knows of it, can you point me towards some sort of documentation?[/nq]
I'll copy the reply I made in aeu for those who balk at making the trek. Plus an added bit at the bottom since I've now checked OED BTW, it's thoughtful of you to avoid cross-posting but a limited amount is generally thought to be OK and cross-posting between aue and aeu is quite common and rarely objected to.
Not "making the nut" Percy, but "nut" has several US meanings in relation to finances and it's easy to see where "making" can be added on.
Partridge's Dic of Slang has :
"rent for stall or sideshow or stand at a fair" with a reported explanation "because rent is a nut to be cracked (paid) before reaching kernel (income)" (which sounds like bollox to me but what do I know). The Cassell Dic of Slang by Jonathan Green has :
"1. (20C) (US) (orig. entertainment) the initial outlay, overheads, expenses; the break-even sum as in a theatre production or film, after which profit starts. 2 (20C) (US) any required sum. 3. (1920s +) (US Und.) protection money paid to corrupt policemen. 4. (1970s) (US) a fund used for bribery and other illegal activities, esp. by police.(SE 'nut' as being the heart of the fruit: such money is at the heart of a project, a relationship etc)"
I first encountered it in the works of my old pal George V Higgins, notably in "The Digger's Game". Here's a scene where the Digger is explaining to his brother, the priest, how he lost 18,000 dollars in Las Vegas. He has 2,000 dollars and doesn't know whether to use it paying interest for a while (at 400 bucks a week - the 'vig') or reducing the capital (the 'nut'):
"Four hundred a week," the Digger said. "I got two grand. That's either vig plus sixteen off the nut, or it's five weeks to raise the eighteen."

=
Bonus definitions.
OED has:
"b. to make the nut: (see quot.).

1899 Allbutt's Syst. Med. VIII. 12 The violoncello players+who seekto get high-pitched notes from their instruments by shortening the strings by violent pressure with the out~side of the phalangeal joint of the left thumb, while the fingers are engaged in stopping the string lower down (a manouvre known as 'making the nut'). " ... which I don't think has anything to do with our sheep.

But OED also has:
"nut ... 20. U.S. slang. The amount of money required for a venture; overhead costs. Hence transf., any sum of money."
With cites such as

1933 Sun (Baltimore) 28 Jan. 16/4 The difficulty of 'making the nut',the term applied to accumulating the rental charge due each night to the owner of the cab ... 1936 Amer. Speech XI. 219 He (sc. the producer) decides that in order to open the show a certain amount of money will be necessary. This amount is the production nut ... 1972 Publishers' Weekly
14 Feb. 60/1 He submitted a strong script that led Fox to substitutecolor film and wide screen for black-and-white and the conventional small-screen ratio, and to raise the nut to $400,000." There's even a reference from JB Preistley, which took me aback: " 1962 J. B. Priestley Margin Released vi. 202 In the Thirties, when we could produce Laburnum Grove+for about £800+the weekly running costs-the 'get-out' or 'nut'-were round about the same figure, theatre and all. "

John Dean
Oxford

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]OK. There's a fierce battle brewing in my family surrounding the phrase, "Make the nut". The phrase literally means "covering one's expenses",[/nq]
No it doesn't.
Adrian

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]I'll copy the reply I made in aeu for those who balk at making the trek. Plus an added bit at the bottom since I've now checked OED[/nq]
Most of that sounds like folk etymologies that got recorded when the researchers couldn't find anything more plausible. I'd consider it just as likely that it has some connection to "net".

Aaron Davies
Opinions expressed are solely those of a random number generator. "I don't know if it's real or not but it is a myth." -Jami JoAnne of alt.folklore.urban, showing her grasp on reality.

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]OK. There's a fierce battle brewing in my family surrounding the phrase, "Make the nut". The phrase literally means "covering ... obscure, but I'm certain it exists. If anyone knows of it, can you point me towards some sort of documentation?[/nq]
Can't point you to documentation, but "making the nut" is both familiar to me and something I have used and do use. I know it more as "The monthly nut is.." meaning the amount of profit that needs to be made to cover the basic expenses.
[nq:1]but can be more loosely used to convey the idea of "making the grade" or "living up to a certain standard".[/nq]
I wouldn't use it that way. The "nut" is the breakeven point in my lexicon, so you can't live up to much of a standard if you only cover the basic expenses.
If you want another reference, Google "monthly nut". I found:

" You're right on this one, but it's pretty common for investors (and others) to mix up the terms "burn rate" and "monthly nut," especially in startups. A company's burn rate is the NET amount of cash it "burns" through every month. Thus, if a company starts the year with $5 million in the bank and ends with $4 million, its burn rate is a million
dollars a year. The "monthly nut" is the total amount of cash that the company spends on basic expenses salaries, rent, travel, etc. regardless of how much cash is actually collected. "

at: http://www.gonnerman.com/newsletters/financialreporting.htm

Tony Cooper
Orlando FL

Usenet · Answer

[nq:2]OK. There's a fierce battle brewing in my family surrounding the phrase, "Make the nut". The phrase literally means "covering one's expenses",[/nq]
[nq:1]No it doesn't.[/nq]
You might want to qualify that with a "..to me" unless it's a quibble with the use of "literally".

Tony Cooper
Orlando FL

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]Can't point you to documentation, but "making the nut" is both familiar to me and something I have used and ... as "The monthly nut is.." meaning the amount of profit that needs to be made to cover the basic expenses.[/nq]
Wait, it's not profit until you've paid the basic expenses, right?

What's the definition of "profit", in English usage?

In Goodfellas Morrie (probably mispronounced, BTASN) had a line "No more nut!" when he was waxing enthusiastic about the proposed Lufthansa heist.

I'm comparatively normal for a guy raised in Brooklyn. - Alvy Singer

Usenet · Answer

[nq:2]Can't point you to documentation, but "making the nut" is ... that needs to be made to cover the basic expenses.[/nq]
[nq:1]Wait, it's not profit until you've paid the basic expenses, right?[/nq]
Sure it is. Matsuo Takahashi buys $60 worth of meat, buns, catsup, and pickles for Arnold's Diner. He sells $100 worth of hamburgers to Richie and his friends and makes a profit of $40.00. The other expenses - the nut - reduce the profit. You can talk about gross profit and net profit and the other accounting terms, but when explaining the "nut" it's not necessary.
That $40 is a profit-on-sales, and not the final amount of profit he will make, but it's still considered a profit.
Even your version of profit is not profit if you want to play accounting term games. It would be called something like "pre-tax profit". And then there are the steps in between net profit and pre-tax profit like adjustments from write-offs and depreciation and so on.
Don't make this complicated, Areff. The guy just wants to know if "nut" is used and what it means.
[nq:1]What's the definition of "profit", in English usage?[/nq]
That's one of those questions that is answered by a question. What profit figure are you asking about? You want a dictionary definition or a working definition or an accountant's definition? In business, we generally think of it as the difference between what we get and what we spend, but we understand that whatever we identify as profit is subject to later change. So the profit on sales is not the profit a few lines down on the P&L.
For example, on that transaction above...the $40 is a "profit", but we might not actually get the $100. If we invoice the customer for $100, we aren't assured that we'll even see the money. If we're on the accrual method we have a profit, but if we're on a cash basis we don't have the profit until the customer ponies up. If we have a profit on the accrual method, and the customer stiffs us, the profit figure stays up there on the P&L but is reduced a few lines down.

You can turn this discussion over to the accountants and the pedants, but Matsuo - and Al Delvecchio before him - knew that they had to make a profit on that $60's worth of meat, buns, catsup, and pickles as a way to make their nut.

Tony Cooper
Orlando FL

"Make the nut"

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