Make it singular or plural?

Question

Hi. Should the following parts be in singular or plural?

1. I think you should spend more time going over the review and summing-up process (processes?) - I meant to say the review and the summing-up process.

2. This section details the old and new system (systems?) of government. - Again, I meant to say the old and the new system of government.

How about these? I am sorry for not giving you full sentences. It is hard for me to write them.

the Old and New Testament

South and North Korea

the old and new watch

Mister Micawber · Accepted Answer

1. I think you should spend more time going over the review and summing-up process/processes - Either is possible. If you think of 'review & summing-up' as a single process, use the singular noun; if you think of them as two, use the plural.

2. This section details the old and new systems of government.-- Clearly 2 systems.

the Old and New Testaments are

North and South Korea are
the old and new watches are

Anonymous · Answer

Hi. Please tell me if the following denote two of them or not. I am sorry for not providing you with full sentences.

1. ... capturing the visual and prophetic release for DVDs.

2. ... the visual and prophetic nature of the dream

Mister Micawber · Answer

Please tell me if the following denote two of them or not.-- I cannot be sure of the 1st one without full text, but both seem uncountable nouns. Neither refers to more than one, however, even if countable.

Anonymous · Answer

Hi. Thank you for your help. But unfortunatly I don't seem to get the picture of how I can distinguish if something that has the types of two (or more) adjectives before a noun like the one I wrote to ask you for help -- "... visual and prophetic nature of the dream" -- can refer to only one (if I interpreted your response correctly.) The way I see the ellipted phrase "... visual and prophetic nature of the dream" is that it can be separated into two -- like visual nature and prophetic nature of the dream. It it can be indeed, doesnt' this look like it consists of two parts and thus refers to two? I hope my question makes sense. I am asking a question but the feeling is that pieces don't seem to fit perfectly. I get the feeling there might be some holes in my logic.

Also, going back to the first post of this thread I wrote, an example phrase (among some others) I wrote to ask you for help was the phrase "the Old and New Testament" and you corrected it as "the Old and New Testaments." I googled the phrase "the Old and New Testament" in Google Book Search and come up with "approximately 169,000 hits," whereas the search for the phrase "the Old and New Testaments" yielded "approximately 354,000 hits." (When I typed either phrase, the words indicating the number of hits had a Korean word that means "approximately" before the number so I have included that.) Do you think the phrase "the Old and New Testament" is incorrect (if I read your response correctly - as saying it is wrong)?

The following example seems to show a clear reference to two presentations, informal and formal: "He is watching a formal and informal presentation."

But I am not sure whether this references two things or one thing. Do the words "Biblical" and "historical" modify the noun "foundation" together as a whole or do the same words denote two foundations, one that is Biblical and the other that is historical?

Here, you will learn a Biblical and historical foundation

I think the following clearly show two adjectives that modify the noun "board game" together as a whole:

a fun and exciting board game

I hope I have given you an idea as to what I am struggling with and wish I could have your help on that. Thank you so much for your anticipated help.

Avangi · Answer

If I may stick my nose in, when you look at these three examples MrM presented, you can see that a single "rule" will not fit all cases:

the Old and New Testaments are

North and South Korea are
the old and new watches are

While each of the examples describes two things and uses the plural verb, the nouns are not all plural.

You could alternately say, "The old watch and the new watch are etc."
"The two Koreas are etc."

I think I've also heard "The Old and New Testament are," but it may be incorrect.

AnonymousHe is watching a formal and informal presentation."

Here, you will learn a Biblical and historical foundation

a fun and exciting board game

I agree that these examples are plural, singular, and singular respectively.
I'd probably repeat the article on the first one: " . . . . a formal and an informal presentation."
You could also say, "He is watching formal and informal presentations." (This could describe more than two.)

the point is that you have to apply something akin to "common sense" to each individual case.

visual and prophetic nature of the dream

Since "visual" and "prophetic" are unrelated to each other, by comparison to "fun" and "exciting,"
you could say that the (singular) dream has two natures: visual and prophetic natures of the dream.

Mister Micawber · Answer

The point is that you have to apply something akin to "common sense" to each individual case.-- I concur 100%. I suggested 'Old and New Testaments' because it makes it absolutely clear that there are two named entities, the Old Testament and the New Testament. 'And' also calls for the plural, logically (cf. 'I read it in either the Old or New Testament'). If neither common sense nor clarity cry for one or the other, I see no reason to worry about which you use.

Anonymous · Answer

Hi. Thank you so much.

You wrote:

Anonymous

“He is watching a formal and informal presentation."

Here, you will learn a Biblical and historical foundation

a fun and exciting board game”

I agree that these examples are plural, singular, and singular respectively.

I'd probably repeat the article on the first one: " . . . . a formal and an informal presentation."

You could also say, "He is watching formal and informal presentations." (This could describe more than two.)

the point is that you have to apply something akin to "common sense" to each individual case.

_________________

Are you saying that the two below are the same in that both denote his looking at one formal presentation and another informal presentation (one each), except that no. 2 could mean more than two formal and informal presentations?

1. He is watching a formal and an informal presentation.

2. He is watching formal and informal presentations.

Also, I think you said the following is singular. Could you tell me where my logic fell short since I could imagine myself thinking it plural, i.e., a Biblical foundation and a historical foundation. As a side, I realize that there should be a period at the end -- sorry, I overlooked it.

Here, you will learn a Biblical and historical foundation

I would have no problem seeing this singular, though:

He considered this in a serious and quiet way.

Thank you in advance for taking your time to answer my question.

Avangi · Answer

AnonymousHere, you will learn a Biblical and historical foundation

A house normally has only one foundation. Within a given field, a person has only one foundation. It is his foundation. It may draw its strength from more than one area.
I wouldn't say your logic fell short. It has more to do with experience - the way we think of things.

Here you will learn/acquire a foundation. NOT Here you will acquire some foundations.

AnonymousAre you saying that the two below are the same in that both denote his looking at one formal presentation and another informal presentation (one each), except that no. 2 could mean more than two formal and informal presentations?
1. He is watching a formal and an informal presentation.
2. He is watching formal and informal presentations.

Yes.
This pair are not my favorite examples of this issue. They're awkward and unnatural, and anyone who uses them does so under peril of being misunderstood.

Anonymous · Answer

Thank you. Although some things you said were in line with what I thought how my logic should have been (or should be), you have taught me some things that I believe are important for me know. (I hope I wrote the previous one-sentence comment to reflect what I wanted to say - not sure, though.) Thank you, again.

Anonymous · Answer

Hi. Please help.

You wrote:

If I may stick my nose in, when you look at these three examples MrM presented, you can see that a single "rule" will not fit all cases:

the Old and New Testaments are

North and South Korea are
the old and new watches are

While each of the examples describes two things and uses the plural verb, the nouns are not all plural.

You could alternately say, "The old watch and the new watch are etc."
"The two Koreas are etc."

I think I've also heard "The Old and New Testament are," but it may be incorrect.
________________________________________________________________

Please tell me if the phrase "the old and new watches" could denote one old and one new watch. I think it is correct but it also could mean more than one old and one new watch. Could we also write "the old and the new watch" to denote one old and one new watch? Thank you in advance.

Make it singular or plural?

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