Less than there really is...

Question

0Hi, I have a question which, silly as it may seem, has been troubling for days now. Let's imagine that I receive, say, an invoice from my bank and notice a discrepancy between the amount that I am said to have and my actual balance. I've thought of the following sentences, but all sound hopelessly awkward. Perhaps you could help me modify them since I seem to have lost my touch... 02br02br001. According to the invoice, I have less money in my account than I do in actuality / in reality.02br02br002. According to the invoice, I have less money in my account than I have in actuality / in reality.02br02br003. According to the invoice, I have less money in my account than I really / actually do.02br02br004. My invoice states / indicates there is less money in my account than there really is.02br02br00I could go on, but I think you get the idea. Of course, I could always say: "it says I have less money than I'm supposed to have", but that's not quite the meaning I'm aiming for (i.e. it could mean that I have less money left in my account than I thought I had, which is NOT what I'm trying to say.) I realize some of the sentences above sound terrible - please don't rub it in...02br02br01u00P.S.:02u00 While you're at it, please correct me if you find other mistakes in my post, even if they're unrelated to the question. Thanks.0-

Avangi · Accepted Answer

0Hi Marvin,02br
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00My understanding of an "invoice" is something like a bill stating that you owe something, and why. I could be wrong about that.02br
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00Are you talking about, let's say, the monthly statement which banks send to depositors or checking account customers?02br
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00When you speak of the amount of money which is really or actually in your account, what are you talking about? In the final analysis, what represents the amount you have? What would you accept as absolute proof of the amount you 01i01u01b00really02b02u02i00 have?02br
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00Best wishes, - A.0-

Avangi · Answer

0I posted a reply, but the site hiccupped and then swallowed it. I'll try again after I calm down.02br
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00OMG! There it is!02br
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00Anyway, you have to be realistic and think about how this can play out and what you really want them to do.02br
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00If your records are in good order, you can take your receipts and ATM slips etc.to the bank and let them check it out, or you can cowboy up and find the error yourself. Most banks keep pretty good records. If you have a receipt for a deposit and it doesn't show up after a reasonable time on your statement, then you have something to talk about. If they're charging you for a check you know you didn't write, then you have something to talk about. If you haven't reconciled your account in six months, then you have some work to do.02br
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00You can say, "According to my personal records, the balance in my account should be $750 greater then was shown on my latest statement," or something like that, but unless you have some specific discrepancy to point out, there's not much they can do, except look over your personal records and try to do your work for you.02br
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00Regards, - A.0-

MarvinTheMartian · Answer

0I chose my example at random. It's just a hypothetical situation. My bank is actually quite dependable. It's never given me cause to complain. Thanks for your explanations, though. If I ever have problems with my bank account, I know who to contact. 05002br
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00Now, back to my question: I'm trying to find a generic way of saying what I failed to articulate in my previous post. By "generic", I mean that I don't want to have to mention any specific numbers (in casual speech, I rarely feel the need to be that specific.) Somehow, I don't think the sentences I suggested above are grammatically correct. At least, they don't sound right to me. (I could be wrong, of course.) Any suggestions or comments will be appreciated.02br
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00P.S.: You're right about your definition of "invoice". My bad.010id5

MarvinTheMartian · Answer

0By the way, to answer your question: by "money I actually have in my account", I mean "money physically (or rather, virtually) held in my account". Anyway, my question still stands...0-

Clive · Answer

0Hi,02br
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00I'd begin by saying 01b00'The balance on my last statement is not correct. It's too low'.02b02br
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00I'd then go on to explain which items on the statement are missing or incorrect. That's what the bank is going to ask you about. They won't simply top up your account, alas!02br
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00Best wishes, Clive0-

MarvinTheMartian · Answer

0Hi Clive, that's a very clear and concise way of putting it, but I would like to know what you think of my original sentences. Can they be reworked to sound less redundant? Since I'm not affected by the problem I described, I'm not so much trying to find a practical solution as I'm trying to test the limits of the English language... I often strive to find different ways of saying one thing in order to perfect my verbal skills. A worthwile endeavor, wouldn't you say?0-

Susankay · Answer

01. According to the statement, I have less money in my account than my records show. 02br
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001. According to the statement, I have less money in my account than I thought I did. 02br
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00That's about the only thing you can say. 02br
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00Ever try to argue with a bank? 02br
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00You will need to sit down and find out WHERE the discrepancy is, then try to prove the bank is in error. In the meantime, consider01u00 them02u00 to be correct. the burden of proof is on you! 0-

Avangi · Answer

0Hi Marvin,02br
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00What I was trying to get at is that if (for example) you've been a victim of "identity theft" and someone got your numbers and was able to withdraw money from your account (as happened to me), you only 01b01i01u00think02u02i02b00 you know the amount that is really/actually in your account. That money is 01b01i01u00really/actually not02u02i02b00 in your account. On the other side of the ledger, if you deposit a check to your account and the check bounces, that money 01b01i01u00is not02u02i02b00 in your account. (The bank usually informs you of this.)02br
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00What I'm trying to say is, you're attempting an exercise in futility. You're trying to shuffle words which have no factual meaning. All you can say is that there's a discrepance between their figures and yours. You need their help in reconciling this. 02br
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00In a real life situation you'd simply compare your personal records with your bank statement, and pinpoint the conflict. I personally would have a hard time composing a convincing generic statement using terms I feel are generically meaningless.02br
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00Kindest regards, - A.0-

MarvinTheMartian · Answer

0Thanks, Susankay. Good suggestions, but using your second sentence would be equivalent to saying that I failed to keep track of my transactions. It would be like admitting that I was in error. I'm trying to say exactly the opposite! I'm still attempting to understand why my original sentences don't work. I'll admit that they sound odd, but I still need a logical explanation... After all, don't we say: "he looks taller in pictures than he actually is", or: "objects may appear closer in the mirror than they actually are"?02br
00P.S.: I've never had to argue with a bank, thank goodness. I hear some financial institutions are particularly reluctant to admit when they've screwed up. I wonder if their motto is "the customer is always wrong." Or, to quote HAL in "2001: A Space Odyssey": "We are all, by any practical definition of the words, foolproof and incapable of error. 05002br
010id5

MarvinTheMartian · Answer

0Hi Avangi, nice of you to reply. I understand you think I’m wasting my time trying to construct a sentence that I will never use in a real-life situation, but this is beside the point. As I said earlier, the context in my example is irrelevant. I chose the example of a bank simply because I couldn’t think of a better one. I’m more concerned with evaluating the grammatical validity (or lack thereof) of my sentences. In other words, I’m trying to 01u01b00master02b02u00 the type of comparative sentence I experimented with in my original post. I’m stuck in a thought-loop. I need to solve this problem. I need to understand.02br
00Now, since you claim that my example doesn’t make sense in the given context, let’s suppose that I’m omniscient and that I know exactly how much money my account contains without having to consult any statements or records, will it then be correct to say something like: “The statetment shows there is less money in my account than there actually is”, even though it may sound a bit odd? After all, as I said in my reply to Susankay, we often encounter sentences like “objects may appear closer than they actually are.”02br
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