Lent/loaned

Question

Just wondering about the usage of "loan" as a verb.

The bank gave us a loan.
I learned that this is the correct way to say this. But then I've seen "loaned" as well when I searched on google.
The bank loaned us the money.
Just wondering if it is as common (and correct) to say it in both ways. In BrEng or USEnglish?
Another example:
He loaned me his boat.
He lent me his boat.
Thanks, Ching.

Usenet · Accepted Answer

Ching wrote on 19 May 2005:
[nq:1]Just wondering about the usage of "loan" as a verb.[/nq]
According to the OED, it goes back to about the year 1200. I'd say it was a relatively old usage in English.
[nq:1]The bank gave us a loan. I learned that this is the correct way to say this.[/nq]
Nothing at all wrong with saying it that way, but it's not the only way or even necessarily the best way to say it.
[nq:1]But then I've seen "loaned" as well when I searched on google. The bank loaned us the money.[/nq]
And that's the correct way to say that. I hope you see what I'm getting at here.
[nq:1]Just wondering if it is as common (and correct) to say it in both ways. In BrEng or USEnglish?[/nq]
Yes and yes, and yea and yea.
[nq:1]Another example: He loaned me his boat. He lent me his boat.[/nq]
Those are both the correct ways to say those things. I'd use either one of them or both. I can't tell which is BrE and which is AmE, because they're both in my cerebral linguistic database. I prefer "lent", though. I'm a native American-speaker, if that matters.

Franke: EFL teacher & medical editor
For email, replace numbers with English alphabet.
"*** is a concept by which we measure our pain".
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[nq:1]Just wondering about the usage of "loan" as a verb. The bank gave us a loan. I learned that this ... both ways. In BrEng or USEnglish? Another example: He loaned me his boat. He lent me his boat. Thanks, Ching.[/nq]
CyberChypher's right. but I've got to tell you...These are some tough formal usage questions, Ching, and clearly come from someone who already knows English very well. Let's give you some tools to help yourself. I've shown you the British National Corpus lookup and a new way to use Google, but let me point you now to some native-speaker tools on line where you will find answers to questions like these.

For notes on modern American usage issues, try
http://www.bartleby.com/68/.
Getting your hands on a good British English usage manual is a bit more difficult. I'll post on this again in about ten minutes.
Getting your hands on a passable British English dictionary that gives you some idea of word origins is simple:
http://www.askoxford.com/dictionaries/compact oed/?view=uk There is some usage help on this site, but then again, not much. Basically, if you use a dictionary published by Oxford, you can't go far wrong.

Finding the right American dictionary can be a bit trickier. Use this one! http://www.m-w.com/

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British English online usage manuals are tricky.
You can use this, but it's a bit "dodgy," as my British friends would put it.
http://lib.luksian.com/texte/encndict/013/

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[nq:1]CyberChypher's right. but I've got to tell you...These are some tough formal usage questions, Ching, and clearly come from someone ... Oxford, you can't go far wrong. Finding the right American dictionary can be a bit trickier. Use this one! http://www.m-w.com/[/nq]
Thank you, Credo. I especially appreciate the self-help tools that you suggest.
I am very interested in the Englsh language, but am rather at a disadvantage as a learner. I believe that learning English is much easier if you live in an English-speaking country/environment. Lacking that, I try to learn in other ways and am thankful that there are so many people in this newsgroup who are willing to share their knowledge.
As is obvious, my main problem is "usage". A teacher once told me to either stick with BrE or with AmE and never to mix. I think he called the mixture "transatlantic" and there was a risk of drowning if I used a "transatlantic version" of the language. I have never been able to keep the two apart. But I'm still learning and have no intention of giving up as yet.
So, once again, thanks.

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]As is obvious, my main problem is "usage". A teacher once told me to either stick with BrE or with ... drowning if I used a "transatlantic version" of the language. I have never been able to keep the two apart.[/nq]
Since British and American usage (and even Australian usage) constantly influence each other today this is a rather senseless task. This isn't to deny that there are differences in vocabulary, but then there are also differences of vocabulary even between regions in England.

To be quite honest I don't really notice whether a book or article is using British or American spelling unless I have to analyse it. Indeed in these days of globalisation you will now find books on sale in Britain written by British authors and published by apparently British publishers but using American spelling because the multi-national corporation that owns the British publisher has the British and American editions printed by the same firm in, say, Hong Kong and just puts different covers on the same edition.
Regards, Einde O'Callaghan

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Well, I went overboard again, but this one was rather fun.
[nq:1][/nq]
[nq:2]As is obvious, my main problem is "usage". A teacher ... language. I have never been ableto keep the two apart.[/nq]
[nq:1]Since British and American usage (and even Australian usage)constantly influence each other today this is a rather senseless task. Thisisn't ... andAmerican editions printed by the same firm in, say, Hong Kong and just puts different covers on the same edition.[/nq]
First, here's some more self-help material.
Science/Linguistics and Human Languages/Languag= es/Specific Languages/English/Grammar Usage and Style/

A second point: dictionaries and usage manuals all have a life of about ten years of real utility. Never, ever buy the expensive, ornate versions of such books: they are marketed for ostentatious fools and people looking for expensive gifts for their loved ones.

I am in complete agreement regarding all of Einde's comments, but I would like to state that I believe you should, wherever possible, first turn to Oxford/Cambridge University Press materials for answer to your usage questions. There are many practical reasons for this, most of which are obvious, some of which are not, but I don't think this is the place to discuss them.
It is important, though, to once again state that I'm American and have never set foot in the UK, so I'm not trying to market "my" variety of English.
The vast majority of self-help sources on-line are US-based, so shop around. A good rule of thumb: if three cheap or free manuals are in complete agreement regarding a topic, you can base your job on their answer to your question. Otherwise, keep looking.
Let's use your "loaned/lent" question as a model and find some online sources, a mix of pay and free resources, but nothing out of the really pricey usage manuals that would give you the best answers (while putting you in the poorhouse).

This is from the Oxford Guide to English Usage
loan (verb) has some justification where a businesslike loan is in question, e.g. The gas industry is using a major part of its profits to benefit the PSBR by loaning money to Government (Observer). Otherwise it is a needless variant for lend.
The Oxford Dictionary of American Usage and Style (this is a highly questionable reference, as are all UK books on US usage. It's a pay reference, and I've included it in this list to bolster my assertion that you should never completely believe what UK authorities say about US usage and widdershins likewise.)
loan; lend. In formal usage, lend is the verb and loan the noun. The verb loan is considered permissible, however, when used to denote the lending of money (as distinguished from the lending of things).
Pocket Fowler's Modern English Usage (This costs less than thirty dollars and is excellent value for your money.)
loan verb. In 19c British English, loan was a standard alternative for lend, but by the time Fowler wrote (1926) loan had been largely driven out by lend, although it has continued in use in AmE. In current use loan is mostly confined to non-British varieties of English:

Delaney told him he could loan him $50 a week-Thomas Keneally, 1985 (Australia) / The problem was how to stretch the small amount of money he had been loaned by Herr Pfuehl-Anita Desai (India).
But it is used in BrE too in the context of making something valuable (such as a work of art) available by a formal arrangement to an institution for a period:
It is part of the Christ Church plate in the treasury showcase, which also displays many items loaned by parishes within the diocese-Christ Church Oxford: A Pitkin Guide, 1991
(an alternative, more pleasing to some, is on loan from). In normal contexts, however, loan is a so-called 'needless variant' of lend.
The Columbia Guide to Standard American English. (This one's on-line and free.)
lend (v.), loan (n., v.)
Lend (principal parts lend, lent, lent) and loan (principal parts loan, loaned, loaned) are both clearly Standard in American English, although the British still object to loan as a verb, and as a result several American commentators reject or dislike it. Lend and loan are synonyms in their literal senses as verbs (the transitive "to give someone the use or temporary possession of something" and the intransitive "to engage in the act or practice of doing so"), but only lend has figurative uses: The morning sun lends a cheery air to the usually gloomy library. The noun loan is also Standard: He made me a loan to cover my outstanding tuition bills.
The American Heritage=AE Book of English Usage. (In my opinion, this is the worst usage manual ever written, but many usage dilettantes adhere to it because it's on-line and free, and several Usenet "grammar gurus" swear by it.)
(no article on lent/loaned whatsover)

Now, out of this group of 5 manuals, we do have some agreement, but complete agreement? No. Pocket Fowler's did give you more explanation than the others (which probably explains why it's not free), and the Columbia Guide did mention the US/UK problem, so we got more and more information as we went along. That's generally how it works with usage manuals.
I would be willing to bet, Ching, that you know that occasionally, non-native speakers with a smattering of UK/US language skills do their best to advertise that fact to their advantage, often by putting down fellow colleagues who have exclusively learned the language abroad.

This phenomenon is quite prevalent in Greece, I'm afraid, so I understand why the answers to these questions are as important to you as they are.
And finally, Ching, while your "problem" is usage, your English is practically flawless. Despite the fact that I get caught up in the odd post, I do have a job teaching English to non-native speakers and people pay me money to make such decisions. Achieving that level of written proficiency that you have while learning in a "non-immersion" environment (you're not living in an English-speaking country) is a worthy achievement and demands respect. You deserve all the help you can get, even though you need very, very little at your level.

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1][/nq]
[nq:2]As is obvious, my main problem is "usage". A teacher ... I have never been able to keep the two apart.[/nq]
[nq:1]Since British and American usage (and even Australian usage) constantly influence each other today this is a rather senseless task. This isn't to deny that there are differences in vocabulary, but then there are also differences of vocabulary even between regions in England.[/nq]
I am beginning to see that it is rather a senseless task, especially in these days of globalisation and the influence this has on the English language. More common differences in vocabulary and spelling do not baffle me as much as usage such as lent/loaned and now (woe me) learned/taught. The other day, a very good native-speaker friend said "His teacher learned him to ..." I must remember to check this up on google :-)
[nq:1]To be quite honest I don't really notice whether a book or article is using British or American spelling unless ... by the same firm in, say, Hong Kong and just puts different covers on the same edition. Regards, Einde O'Callaghan[/nq]
Thank you for your reply. It helps me to understand the complexities of language learning.
Ching

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]The other day, a very good native-speaker friend said "His teacher learned him to ..." I must remember to check this up on google :-)[/nq]
This is common enough in the dialect of uneducated American speakers, but it's not at all standard.
And what do you mean by "a very good native-speaker friend"? That the friend is a "very good friend" of yours or that the friend is "a very good native-speaker of English"?
I certainly cannot question the first possibility, but I doubt the truth of the second possibility: nobody who says "His teacher learned him to ..." is a very good speaker of English, native or otherwise.

Franke: EFL teacher & medical editor
For email, replace numbers with English alphabet.
'"History," Hegel said, "is a slaughterhouse."
And war is how the slaughter is carried out.'
Sydney H. Schanberg, The Village Voice ,
May 17th, 2005

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[nq:1]Well, I went overboard again, but this one was rather fun. [/nq]
[nq:2]I would be willing to bet, Ching, that you know that occasionally,[/nq]
[nq:1]non-native speakers with a smattering of UK/US language skills do their best to advertise that fact to their advantage,[/nq]
This is sometimes the case in Sweden as well, especially if those who have lived in an English-speaking country have managed to "acquire" an accent. :-) They are often more fluent in speech as compared to the learners who have practiced pronunciation and intonation in speech labs.
[nq:1]often by putting down fellow colleagues who have exclusively learned the language abroad. This phenomenon is quite prevalent in Greece, I'm afraid, so I understand why the answers to these questions are as important to you as they are.[/nq]
Sometimes the questions sound trivial even to me. But they are important because they make me more "informed" of the differences in usage. This is an area that has always been of interest to me. (I have been ignorant of the self-help sites that you sugggested, but now they are all bookmarked)
[nq:1]And finally, Ching, while your "problem" is usage, your English is practically flawless. Despite the fact that I get caught ... demands respect. You deserve all the help you can get, even though you need very, very little at your level.[/nq]
Thank you. You have given my self-confidence an enormous boost. (I hope this is the correct way of saying it)
Ching

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]This is sometimes the case in Sweden as well, especially if those who have lived in an English-speaking country have ... are often more fluent in speech as compared to the learners who have practiced pronunciation and intonation in speech labs.[/nq]
Speech labs are nice, as are sound-file pronouncing dictionaries, but you should realize that the vast majority of language teachers do not aim for perfect, native-like pronunciation with their learners. Quite some time ago, an American language teacher named Diane Larsen-Freeman published some research indicating that learners typically do not wish to erase all traces of "country of origin accents" from their language, and argued persuasively that in the interest of non-imperialism and equal access to English for all, we should respect that wish.

This does not get us away from the "spend some time abroad/snob English phenomenon" that I've talked about in this thread.
I am a great fan of phonemic transcription to aid pronunciation, unlike quite a few of my colleagues. To paraphrase something I just read from 1872: "A few persons have the "imitative faculty" well developed, and can easily reproduce forms they have heard; but most need to measure, to analyze, and to describe, before they can copy with accuracy and grace." I am not one of the people that can listen to someone pronouncing something on tape five or ten times and imitate the sound I hear flawlessly for the rest of my life.

Give me a boring, boring description of fricatives, plosives, lip positions and descriptions of the inside of the mouth, however, and I will achieve a real measure of permanent success. I feel that very few language teachers share my opinion, but if you really feel a need to hone your English skills, something like that is the only real help that you will get.
[nq:1]Sometimes the questions sound trivial even to me. But they are important because they make me more "informed" of the differences in usage. This is an area that has always been of interest to me.[/nq]
On the one hand, they are a bit fastidious. On the other hand, I think I that there are some important cultural issues and some harsh realities at stake that many native language speakers working abroad often don't want to think about; I know I have problems thinking of myself as an apologist for linguistic imperialism, although I understand that on one level or another, that's exactly what I am and how I make my money.

Lent/loaned

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