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English 1b3 Posted 15 years ago
Grammar
Legal writing or a pile of mess?
If at any time once the applicant has obtained a "clean slate", the applicant fails to meet the criteria, all of their convictions become available until such time as all of the criteria are again met.
To me, the above reads poorly, but perhaps this is clear to some of you...
Would you agree it reads better as I have written it below, or do you think there is a reason besides trying to confuse people why it was written that way?
Once the applicant has obtained a "clean slate", if at any time the applicant fails to meet the criteria, all of their convictions become available until such time as all of the criteria are again met.
Ta
To me, the above reads poorly, but perhaps this is clear to some of you...
Would you agree it reads better as I have written it below, or do you think there is a reason besides trying to confuse people why it was written that way?
Once the applicant has obtained a "clean slate", if at any time the applicant fails to meet the criteria, all of their convictions become available until such time as all of the criteria are again met.
Ta
Top answer
Everyone agrees that legal jargon is, well, legal jargon – pretty dull and convoluted stuff – but I continue to advise my students to leave it to the lawyers, because that's the way they want to do it and the judges decide what it means, legally-- which is the point. If you wish to improve upon it, to simplify and clarify it, then you should do the job completely, I think: If the applicant has obtained a 'clean slate' but then fails to meet all the criteria, all of his convictions become available until they are again all met.
- Everyone agrees that legal jargon is, well, legal jargon – pretty dull and convoluted stuff – but I continue to advise my students to leave it to the lawyers, because that's the way they want to do it and the judges decide what it means, legally-- which is the point.
- If you wish to improve upon it, to simplify and clarify it, then you should do the job completely, I think: If the applicant has obtained a 'clean slate' but then fails to meet all the criteria, all of his convictions become available until they are again all met.
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6 Answers
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Everyone agrees that legal jargon is, well, legal jargon – pretty dull and convoluted stuff – but I continue to advise my students to leave it to the lawyers, because that's the way they want to do it and the judges decide what it means, legally-- which is the point. If you wish to improve upon it, to simplify and clarify it, then you should do the job completely, I think:
If the appl
If the appl
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I also question the correctness of the word such in the original? "...until such time..."
Would you say this is incorrect? Such needs to refer to something specified, and it doesn't seem right for it to refer to 'as all of the criteria are again met.
Would you say this is incorrect? Such needs to refer to something specified, and it doesn't seem right for it to refer to 'as all of the criteria are again met.
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Standing alone, 'until such time (as)' is a pretty standard fixed chunk. The part you quote makes sense to me and seems a common phrasing, if that's what you mean.
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I was under the impression this fixed phrase should be avoided. I remember reading it somewhere.
until such time as all of the criteria are again met.
until all of the criteria are again met.
Usage: The use of until such time as (as in industrial action will continue until such time as our demands are met) is unnecessary and should be avoided: indus
until such time as all of the criteria are again met.
until all of the criteria are again met.
Usage: The use of until such time as (as in industrial action will continue until such time as our demands are met) is unnecessary and should be avoided: indus
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Yes, yes - in ordinary writing. That doesn't mean that the legal profession is going to follow suit.
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Mister MicawberYes, yes - in ordinary writing. That doesn't mean that the legal profession is going to follow suit.Yes, these very important people do as they please, it seems...the benefits of studying for five plus years. I'll stick to ordinary writing, I think.
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