just to... A weird doubt

Question

Hi,I posted about "used to" some time ago. It turned out I don't need two T's, so it's "youss too" instead of "youst to". Now I'm thinking: does that happen with all "st + t" combinations? For example, "just to" ---&gt; "juss to" or "just to"?I think "st + t" combinations turn into a simple "st".What do you think? Thanks

Mister Micawber · Accepted Answer

Yes. In conversation, for virtually all pairs of words in which the last sound of the first word is the same or closely related to the initial sound of the second word, the two sounds merge into one (though perhaps slightly longer?):

I wen(t t)o the market.
I(t t)takes 15 minutes.
La(st S)unday wa(s s)unny.
Is you(r wr)iting going OK?

Kooyeen · Answer

Thanks MM.
Well, I know of that feature. My problem was a little different though. For example, in "I went to the market", those two T's become like Italian double T's. The first is unreleased, the second is the first that is finally released.
But in "Just to", I was asking about that because I suspect the first T actually disappears completely. On second thought though, I think it's because of the combination S+T, where it's difficult to hear the first T...

Yankee · Answer

Hi Kooyeen

I'd agree that your description of the pronunciation of the two Ts in 'went to' is sometimes the case. It seems to me that this pronunciation would be more likely in certain dialects than in others, or in speech that has been slowed down slightly (e.g. in order to give one or the other of the words more emphasis than usual).

Someone recently asked about the "correct" pronunciation of it's still. At normal conversational speed, only one S is actually pronounced in that pair of words (though, as MM mentioned, the S might sound slightly longer than usual).

Kooyeen · Answer

Yes, but it's not correct to say that one consonant is not pronounced at all. It's actually not released. For example, you don't say "stopushing" when you say "stop pushing". The consonants are joined, the first is not released, and the second is the first that is finally released. But in "just to", it seems you don't have to join anything, you just get rid of one T.
I asked about "used to" some time ago, and it turned out it's not "uset to", but "use to". That explains why some write "I use to play cards when I was young", since there's no addtional T sound there. But no one writes "stah pushing" or "stop ushing".
So I was wondering if that applies to ST+T in general, like in "just to". In my opinion, it happens, and it happens because of the combination S+T. An unreleased T after an S is not noticeable, so it's like there's no T.
What do you guys think?

Thanks.

Yankee · Answer

KooyeenYes, but it's not correct to say that one consonant is not pronounced at all.

Ah, but I do think it is correct to describe "stop pushing" that way -- at least at normal, unstressed conversational speed.

Your example with "used to do" (as in "I used to live in Germany") is not a good comparison. The reason the comparison is not good is that the only other word pronounced like the first three letters in the expression "used to do" is the NOUN "use". I think that's as much (if not more) the source of the spelling mix-ups as the fact that the D in "used to do" is not pronounced.

Kooyeen · Answer

YankeeYes, but it's not correct to say that one consonant is not pronounced at all.
Ah, but I do think it is correct to describe "stop pushing" that way -- at least at normal, unstressed conversational speed.

What do you mean? You say "stopushing"? You definetely don't say "stopushing"!!! Never! LOL, well, I think we can't discuss this here, just writing, we are not going to understand each other. I should give you an audio file to show you what I mean... but I won't post any audio clips, because I don't feel like it, lol

PS: I just thought of these examples:
miss stake is different from mistake
bake cakes is different from bay cakes and bake aches, which sound the same.

But that was not the problem. The problem was "st + t", as in "just to"... I think it is not an exception, but because of the ST combination, one T practically disappears... Whether you try to keep both T's or not, the effect is the same.
Again, this is just my hypothesis...

Yankee · Answer

I'm completely heartbroken that you won't be posting any audio clips (especially since I would hope they'd be recordings of you speaking).

So, what's your theory on the disappearing act in the pronunciations of 'want to' and 'going to' (wanna + gonna)?

Kooyeen · Answer

YankeeSo, what's your theory on the disappearing act in the pronunciations of 'want to' and 'going to' (wanna + gonna)?

Uh? You want to know my theory? LOL, ok.

I think those are actually different words, synonyms. So, "wanna" means "want to", but it's not a way of pronouncing "want to". It's a different word. The same is true for "going to".

Yankee · Answer

KooyeenUh? You want to know my theory? LOL, ok.
I think those are actually different words, synonyms. So, "wanna" means "want to", but it's not a way of pronouncing "want to". It's a different word. The same is true for "going to".

Different words?

Have you ever heard any American pronounce even one T in "want to" (without adding some kind extra emphasis to the word 'want')?

Kooyeen · Answer

Amy, you're trying to confuse me, don't you?

Well, I think I heard it a lot of times! Are you saying that "want to" is always pronounced "wanna"?

So you want to learn English... and what makes you think I'm going to teach it to you?
So you wanna learn English... and what makes you think I'm gonna teach it to you?

Wanna and gonna are very common, but not the only way to say it. Of course, the faster you speak, the more likely you are to always say "wanna".

I think they are different words because the way you change the pronunciation of those words is not a general feature of American English. In other words, there's a lot of people (like me) who pronounce twenty as twenny. But they also say innerstate for interstate, cenner for center, niny for ninety... so that's a feature. A lot of T's are left out after N's. But if you consider "wanna" instead of "want to", or "gonna" instead of "going to"... also "gimme" instead of "give me"... those are exceptions, those are not pronunciation features.
Take "gimme". It should be "give me". So, when do you drop V-sounds in American English? Never, I guess. So that's not a way to pronounce some sets of sounds. It's a different pronunciation of a set phrase, which leads to the new word "gimme".

I hope you like my theory... I don't know if that was good, since I didn't even know what exactly I wanted to say. More or less what I wrote, anyway.

just to... A weird doubt

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