Jane is said that she a was a beauty in her youth.

Question

Jane is said (by people) that she a was a beauty in her youth.Does the above sound right? If not, could you tell my why not? Thanks.

Mister Micawber · Accepted Answer

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No-- it must read 'It is said by people that Jane was... The grammatical structure of your original is faulty: Jane is 'said' by no one-- a logical impossibility. You do have another option: Jane is said by people to have been....

Angliholic · Answer

Mister Micawber.
No-- it must read 'It is said by people that Jane was... The grammatical structure of your original is faulty: Jane is 'said' by no one-- a logical impossibility. You do have another option: Jane is said by people to have been....

Thanks, Mister.

But I still have a lingering question, that is, what's wrong with the following?

People say that Jane was a beauty in her youth.

Jane is said by people that she was a beauty in her youth.

Marius Hancu · Answer

Jane is said by people that she was a beauty in her youth.

Did you find this in an English book of fiction or whatever? Do not invent. Use models from the good literature.

Mister Micawber · Answer

People say that Jane was a beauty in her youth.
(X) Jane is said by people that she was a beauty in her youth.

Besides the fact that the passive is extremely awkward here, Angli, you have not converted correctly. Changing the first to passive yields: That Jane was a beauty in her youth is said by people.

Angliholic · Answer

Marius HancuJane is said by people that she was a beauty in her youth.

Did you find this in an English book of fiction or whatever? Do not invent. Use models from the good literature.

Thanks, Marius.

I didn't invent it but it's one of those wrong choices in a multiple choice question. And my students don't know why it's wrong. They need to be persuaved. They need to know the reason why.

Angliholic · Answer

Mister Micawber
People say that Jane was a beauty in her youth.
(X) Jane is said by people that she was a beauty in her youth.
Besides the fact that the passive is extremely awkward here, Angli, you have not converted correctly. Changing the first to passive yields: That Jane was a beauty in her youth is said by people.

Thanks, Mister.

By the way, can you prove it is wrong directly so as to convince my pupils?

BarbaraPA · Answer

Reported speech doesn't work like normal passive. For the subject of the speech (Jane) to be the subject of the converted sentence, you have to make some other changes.

Here's normal passive:
Bill washed the car. The car was washed by Bill.
The people adored Roy Rogers. Roy Rogers was adored by people.

However:
Jim said that Jeanne was at the party.
A true passive version of this would be: That Jeanne was at the party was said by Jim. The reason is that Jeanne does not become the subject of the passive structure, but what Jim said is the subject. In this case, it's "That Jeanne was at the party."
To make Jeanne the subject of the new sentence, we instead say Jeanne was said (by Jim) to have been at the party. You can omit the "by Jim" part.

People said [that] Jane was a beauty. Jane is said to have been a beauty.
If you took the true passive, it would be "That Jane was a beauty was said by people." This is awkward - and not a very good representation of what "People said" means. It's not that "people" were actually saying that phrase, but more like "it was generally believed to be true."

Angliholic · Answer

Thanks, GG and helpful friends.

Now I think I know how to convince my pupils.

Jane is said that she a was a beauty in her youth.

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