It is no use trying to persuade him.

Question

It is no use trying to persuade him.It is no use to try to persuade him.I presume the second sounds wrong, but I can't explain the reason. Could you dig up a reason for my pupils? Thanks.

Cool Breeze · Accepted Answer

Hi Angliholic

I didn't know you were a teacher. The gerund used to be preferable in your examples but things have changed and these days the infinitive is also very common. Few would consider it wrong. I wouldn't. All these are possible:

It's no use trying to persuade him
It's no use to try to persuade him.
There is no use/good/point in trying to persuade him.
It's pointless to try to persuade him.

Some would even say:
It's pointless trying to persuade him.

That's a borderline case. I'm not saying it's wrong but it certainly is more common to have an infinitive after an adjective than a gerund. A broad-minded linguist will accept even the last sentence.

Cheers
CB

Kooyeen · Answer

Cool BreezeThe gerund used to be preferable in your examples but things have changed and these days the infinitive is also very common. Few would consider it wrong. I wouldn't.

Hi CB,
I got interested, and look what I did:

1. My dictionary only mentions "it's no use doing something".
2. I searched with Google, and if I search for "it's no use to try", the first result is a link to a page where an ESL learner ask if "it's no use to try" is ok, and they were told it's not idiomatic and had to say "it's no use trying".
3. If you search with Google, "it's no use to try" gives very few results, I can only reach the fifteenth page (don't look at the fake results on the first page, they are absolutely meaningless)
4. I searched for "it's no use" on myspace.com, and all the results are followed by a gerund, apart from a few, which were written by a Portuguese guy. Only one were apparently written by a native speaker.

That leads me to think that "It's no use to do something" is probably not idiomatic for most native speakers and therefore it's better to avoid it.
What do you think?

Delmobile · Answer

Googling the phrase "pointless to try" got 214,000 hits; "pointless trying," 27,900.

I thinkI myself would be more likely to use the gerund, but the other certainly sounds natural enough. I seem to recall a lot of song lyrics with similar constructions, probably because there are more rhymes for the infinitive form

Cool Breeze · Answer

KooyeenThat leads me to think that "It's no use to do something" is probably not idiomatic for most native speakers and therefore it's better to avoid it.
What do you think?

Hi Kooyeen

You are active as usual.

That's very good! I did google for the infinitive as the subject of a clause and probably something else as well - I can't remember what, but the was in the early days of my membership here on these forums when some native speakers told me that some structures that had been accepted usage in English for centuries were no good. I knew full well that they were not common in everyday spoken English but that to me wasn't enough to discard them completely as incorrect. So I had to present some statistical facts to prove that I wasn'tthe only one using them.

These days I seldom get that response from native speakers and consequently I don't google either.

I stand by what I wrote.

Cheers
CB

PS. I hope they'll clear up the mess in Naples before summer. If they don't, rats will have a heyday.

Angliholic · Answer

Cool Breeze
KooyeenThat leads me to think that "It's no use to do something" is probably not idiomatic for most native speakers and therefore it's better to avoid it.
What do you think?
Hi Kooyeen

You are active as usual. That's very good! I did google for the infinitive as the subject of a clause and probably something else as well - I can't remember what, but the was in the early days of my membership here on these forums when some native speakers told me that some structures that had been accepted usage in English for centuries were no good. I knew full well that they were not common in everyday spoken English but that to me wasn't enough to discard them completely as incorrect. So I had to present some statistical facts to prove that I wasn'tthe only one using them.

These days I seldom get that response from native speakers and consequently I don't google either. I stand by what I wrote.

Cheers
CB

PS. I hope they'll clear up the mess in Naples before summer. If they don't, rats will have a heyday.

Thanks, my helpful friends.

To make sure, the second sample in the first post of this thread is always regarded as wrong here. What do you think (native speakers in particular)?

Kooyeen · Answer

AngliholicIt is no use trying to persuade him.

It is no use to try to persuade him.
To make sure, the second sample in the first post of this thread is always regarded as wrong here. What do you think (native speakers in particular)?
Hi Angliholic, yes, I would say it's not idiomatic and you need to say "it's not use doing something", as said in my previous post. That's because of some research I have done, but that's just what I think and therefore I can't be 100% sure. CB doesn't agree, so I really don't know what to say now. CB, ok, I stand by what I wrote too. So, Angli-H, I guess you need some natives now if you want to be really sure... let's see if someone shows up.
PS: CB, yes... Anyway, I am not in Naples.

Yankee · Answer

Hi Angliholic

I'd say "It's no use to do something" is sometimes used, but "It's no use doing something" would be far more common.

In your specific examples, I have to say that "It's no use to try to persuade him" sounds awkward to my ear.

It is no use trying to persuade him.

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