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Usenet Posted 23 years ago
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=?ISO-8859-1?Q?After_=91Barthelona'_on_the_TV?=
Our friends in the British media are nothing if not keen on multi-culti empathy and showing ?respect' for alien modes.
As far as the Hispanic world is concerned, there was the spasmodic pronunciation of the UN Secretary-General Perez de Cuellar's name as ?Pereth' (the guy was Peruvian, where ?z' is pronounced ?s'); but the lisp really got going with the 1992 Olympics at Barcelona. (Though I seem to remember that, whilst BBC newsreaders would lisp, though most through gritted teeth, the sports department by and large persisted with the English pronunciation of the name.)
Lisping now seems rather to have gone out of fashion at the Beeb. But, in today's ?Observer', another example of going too far to ape the Hispanic. A report from Venezuela (1) by one Reed Lindsay (presumably an English mother-tongue speaker) talks about
??the so-called Bolívarian Circles, government-promoted neighbour hood organisations that mainly serve as political action groups in support of the President?'
That's ?Bolivarian', not Bolivian. The reference is to Simon Bolivar, the Liberator (2). Or, in Spanish, Simón Bolívar, El Libertador.
Note the accents: the rule is that Spanish words ending in a consonant are stressed on the last syllable, unless that consonant is either an ?s' or an ?n'. Exceptions to the rule bear an accent on the vowel to be stressed.
But the guy is writing in English. Just as there is no crying in baseball, there are no accents in English! A word gets its naturalisation papers, it has to kick its accents, that's the deal. Otherwise, it's a resident alien, with inverted commas. (I'm not so sure about ?café', which is as British as they come now, but still seems wrong without the accent.)
In a word like ?Bolivarian', there can surely be no place for an accent. Can there?
Not that it affects the issue; but ?bolivariano' doesn't have an accent in Spanish either! The stress is on the penultimate syllable - regular for words ending in a vowel.
As some were with Perez de Cuellar, the (to judge from the piece) rather right-on, ?engagé' Mr Lindsay is more Catholic than the Pope on Bolivarianism.
(I'm distinctly hazy on the underlying concept, beyond the fact it's the ideology (or fig-leaf, if you will) covering President Hugo Chavez's political operations. And a not-so-subtle hint that Chavez is the Bolivar of the millennium. But for a flavour of the fervour: (3).)
Lindsay has ?Chávez', of course. Look forward to his next report from Firenze, Köln
(1) http://observer.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,6903,1015675,00.html (2) http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acropolis/7609/eng/bio.html (3) http://www.marxist.com/Latinam/venezuela revolution at crossroads.html
As far as the Hispanic world is concerned, there was the spasmodic pronunciation of the UN Secretary-General Perez de Cuellar's name as ?Pereth' (the guy was Peruvian, where ?z' is pronounced ?s'); but the lisp really got going with the 1992 Olympics at Barcelona. (Though I seem to remember that, whilst BBC newsreaders would lisp, though most through gritted teeth, the sports department by and large persisted with the English pronunciation of the name.)
Lisping now seems rather to have gone out of fashion at the Beeb. But, in today's ?Observer', another example of going too far to ape the Hispanic. A report from Venezuela (1) by one Reed Lindsay (presumably an English mother-tongue speaker) talks about
??the so-called Bolívarian Circles, government-promoted neighbour hood organisations that mainly serve as political action groups in support of the President?'
That's ?Bolivarian', not Bolivian. The reference is to Simon Bolivar, the Liberator (2). Or, in Spanish, Simón Bolívar, El Libertador.
Note the accents: the rule is that Spanish words ending in a consonant are stressed on the last syllable, unless that consonant is either an ?s' or an ?n'. Exceptions to the rule bear an accent on the vowel to be stressed.
But the guy is writing in English. Just as there is no crying in baseball, there are no accents in English! A word gets its naturalisation papers, it has to kick its accents, that's the deal. Otherwise, it's a resident alien, with inverted commas. (I'm not so sure about ?café', which is as British as they come now, but still seems wrong without the accent.)
In a word like ?Bolivarian', there can surely be no place for an accent. Can there?
Not that it affects the issue; but ?bolivariano' doesn't have an accent in Spanish either! The stress is on the penultimate syllable - regular for words ending in a vowel.
As some were with Perez de Cuellar, the (to judge from the piece) rather right-on, ?engagé' Mr Lindsay is more Catholic than the Pope on Bolivarianism.
(I'm distinctly hazy on the underlying concept, beyond the fact it's the ideology (or fig-leaf, if you will) covering President Hugo Chavez's political operations. And a not-so-subtle hint that Chavez is the Bolivar of the millennium. But for a flavour of the fervour: (3).)
Lindsay has ?Chávez', of course. Look forward to his next report from Firenze, Köln
(1) http://observer.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,6903,1015675,00.html (2) http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acropolis/7609/eng/bio.html (3) http://www.marxist.com/Latinam/venezuela revolution at crossroads.html
Top answer
[nq:1]Our friends in the British media are nothing if not keen on multi-culti empathy and showing 'respect' for alien modes. ) In a word like 'Bolivarian', there can surely be no place for an accent. [/nq] If I were going to use the word "Bolivarian," I'd put the stress on the "var," which would make an accent on the first "i" seem strange.
- [nq:1]Our friends in the British media are nothing if not keen on multi-culti empathy and showing 'respect' for alien modes.
- ) In a word like 'Bolivarian', there can surely be no place for an accent.
- [/nq] If I were going to use the word "Bolivarian," I'd put the stress on the "var," which would make an accent on the first "i" seem strange.
- I don't care for the spelling "cafe," although I recognize it as completely standard, of course.
- " I don't like either the spelling "resume" or "resumé" for the account of one's work.
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17 Answers
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[nq:1]Our friends in the British media are nothing if not keen on multi-culti empathy and showing 'respect' for alien modes. ... wrong without the accent.) In a word like 'Bolivarian', there can surely be no place for an accent. Can there?[/nq]
If I were going to use the word "Bolivarian," I'd put the stress on the "var," which would make an accent on the first "i" seem strange.
I don
If I were going to use the word "Bolivarian," I'd put the stress on the "var," which would make an accent on the first "i" seem strange.
I don
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[nq:1]If I were going to use the word "Bolivarian," I'd put the stress on the "var," which would make an accent on the first "i" seem strange.[/nq]
The common American pronunciation of Bolivar is with stress on the first and last syllables. The correct pronunciation is, as Halcombe says, the inverse of that.
Bolivarian is an English word and I would place the primary stress on the var with
The common American pronunciation of Bolivar is with stress on the first and last syllables. The correct pronunciation is, as Halcombe says, the inverse of that.
Bolivarian is an English word and I would place the primary stress on the var with
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[nq:1]??the so-called Bolívarian Circles, government-promoted neighbour hood organisations that mainly serve as political action groups in support of the President?'[/nq]
[nq:1]But the guy is writing in English. Just as there is no crying in baseball, there are no accents in ... wrong without the accent.) In a word like ?Bolivarian', there can surely be no place for an accent. Can there?[/nq]
[nq:1]But the guy is writing in English. Just as there is no crying in baseball, there are no accents in ... wrong without the accent.) In a word like ?Bolivarian', there can surely be no place for an accent. Can there?[/nq]
00
el3.net...
[nq:2]If I were going to use the word "Bolivarian," I'd ... would make an accent on the first "i" seem strange.[/nq]
[nq:1]The common American pronunciation of Bolivar is with stress on the first and last syllables. The correct pronunciation is, as ... for an English speaker to pronounce. "Bolivarian" with an accent on the I is not a word in either language.[/nq]
Pronunciati
[nq:2]If I were going to use the word "Bolivarian," I'd ... would make an accent on the first "i" seem strange.[/nq]
[nq:1]The common American pronunciation of Bolivar is with stress on the first and last syllables. The correct pronunciation is, as ... for an English speaker to pronounce. "Bolivarian" with an accent on the I is not a word in either language.[/nq]
Pronunciati
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[nq:1]the following for the pronunciations (ASCII IPA used to represent IPA): /'bA.lI,vA:/, Spanish : /bo'li(beta)ar/[/nq]
That's /bo'liBar/ in ASCII IPA. (And it shouldn't be. No phonemic transcription of Spanish should have both /b/ and /B/ in it.)
[nq:1]Is this bilabial fricative characteristic of the Spanish of Venezuela or some other Central or South American country, or is it known o
That's /bo'liBar/ in ASCII IPA. (And it shouldn't be. No phonemic transcription of Spanish should have both /b/ and /B/ in it.)
[nq:1]Is this bilabial fricative characteristic of the Spanish of Venezuela or some other Central or South American country, or is it known o
00
In general, both b and v are pronounced in Spanish with the bilabial fricative, whether intervocalic or not.
I'm told that there are varieties of Spanish which distinguish b from v, pronouncing them approximately as we do in English.
Regards,
John
I'm told that there are varieties of Spanish which distinguish b from v, pronouncing them approximately as we do in English.
Regards,
John
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[nq:1]I'm told that there are varieties of Spanish which distinguish b from v, pronouncing them approximately as we do in English.[/nq]
We had a thread on the subject a month or two ago. I have heard initial V pronounced clearly like an English B (vino pronounced bino), but my own surname is always pronounced with a clear V sound, even in Andalucia.
John Varela
We had a thread on the subject a month or two ago. I have heard initial V pronounced clearly like an English B (vino pronounced bino), but my own surname is always pronounced with a clear V sound, even in Andalucia.
John Varela
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[nq:1]Is this bilabial fricative characteristic of the Spanish of Venezuela or some other Central or South American country, or is it known only in Spain?[/nq]
Some 20+ years ago I travelled frequently to Caracas. The principal thing I recall about the Venezuelan accent is that they swallow their Ses ("Ministerio" > "Miniterio", "fosforo" > "foforo"). Also they seemed to use the "-ico" s
Some 20+ years ago I travelled frequently to Caracas. The principal thing I recall about the Venezuelan accent is that they swallow their Ses ("Ministerio" > "Miniterio", "fosforo" > "foforo"). Also they seemed to use the "-ico" s
00
[nq:1]Some 20+ years ago I travelled frequently to Caracas. The principal thing I recall about the Venezuelan accent is that they swallow their Ses ("Ministerio" > "Miniterio", "fosforo" > "foforo"). Also they seemed to use the "-ico" suffix a lot.[/nq]
This seems to be common in the Caribbean region. To my ears, some Cubans seem to be the worst offenders, obliterating the 's' so that wo
This seems to be common in the Caribbean region. To my ears, some Cubans seem to be the worst offenders, obliterating the 's' so that wo
00
Okay, so this one time? In band camp? John Varela was all, like:
[nq:1]Some 20+ years ago I travelled frequently to Caracas. The principal thing I recall about the Venezuelan accent is that they swallow their Ses ("Ministerio" > "Miniterio", "fosforo" > "foforo"). Also they seemed to use the "-ico" suffix a lot.[/nq]
There must be a better way to indicate the plural of the let
[nq:1]Some 20+ years ago I travelled frequently to Caracas. The principal thing I recall about the Venezuelan accent is that they swallow their Ses ("Ministerio" > "Miniterio", "fosforo" > "foforo"). Also they seemed to use the "-ico" suffix a lot.[/nq]
There must be a better way to indicate the plural of the let
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