Is this "that" a determiner or a relative pronoun?

Question

Hello,What follows is an inquiry posted on a Taiwanese-BBS board.---------------------------However, they do not have to "cry" if they know the short science lesson,___ reactions happen slower at lower temperatures.---------------------------The given answer for that blank is "that."S/he is wondering why "which" cannot be filled in that blank.What is strange is that I find on the Internet a document in which there is no comma after "lesson," but the poster said there is one in his/hers. (The same wording)I am not sure if the sentence conveys the same meaning with or without the comma after "lesson."Is the "that" a determiner or relative pronoun?Best Regards

Avangi · Accepted Answer

I'm not really into the "determiner" definition, but my ear tells me that "which" in this case would be a relative pronoun, and would make no sense here, since the clause already has a subject, "reactions." "That" works fine, so I guess it must be a determiner, by default.

Again relying on my ear, there's a difference in meaning without the comma. With the comma, the following clause appears to be in apposition to "lesson." That is, we already know which lesson we're talking about, and the following clause simply confirms it. Without the comma, the clause becomes essential, actually telling us which lesson we're talking about.

- A.

Edit.

They'll understand this if they studied the lesson - that water expands when it freezes. (assumes they should know which lesson we're talking about - i.e., it's obvious.)

They'll understand this if they studied the lesson that water expands when it freezes. (There are several possible lessons. If they have not studied, it may not be obvious which lesson applies.)

I'm not comfortable saying the lesson is X (although it's sometimes used that way). I'd prefer on or about X.

Anyway, somehow my ear has trouble taking the second one as an appositive.

CalifJim · Answer

exodejavuIs the "that" a determiner or relative pronoun?

A determiner goes with the following noun.
What is the noun following that? reactions. A plural noun.

The determiners that and this are singular; they go only with singular nouns. these and those are plural. They go with plural nouns.
So, does that go with reactions? No. that is singular, and reactions is plural. So that is not a determiner in this sentence.
____
A relative pronoun stands for the noun that the relative clause modifies. The relative pronoun replaces a noun phrase and usually acts as the subject or object of the relative clause.
If that reactions can happen slower at lower temperatures is a relative clause, that replaces the preceding word lesson.
So the relative clause means
Lesson reactions can happen slower at lower temperatures.
What are lesson reactions? There is no such thing as a lesson reaction. This is nonsense. Is lesson a subject or object in that relative clause? No. reactions is the subject and there is no object because happen is intransitive. It can't take an object.
So this clause is not a relative clause, and that is not a relative pronoun.
___
Does that introduce a whole clause? Yes. The clause is Reactions can happen slower at lower temperatures.
that is a complementizer. (Some people call it a conjunction.) It links a whole clause into a larger sentence and makes the whole stucture, including that, a noun phrase.
___
It doesn't matter a lot in this case whether there is a comma after lesson or not. What you have here is a content clause that is an appositive to lesson.
CJ

Avangi · Answer

<<However, they do not have to "cry" if they know the short science lesson, that reactions happen slower at lower temperatures.>>

CalifJim Does that introduce a whole clause? Yes. The clause is Reactions can happen slower at lower temperatures.
that is a complementizer. (Some people call it a conjunction.) It links a whole clause into a larger sentence and makes the whole stucture, including that, a noun phrase. Hi CJ
I need to understand "noun phrase." How much of the above captioned are you saying is considered a noun phrase?

- A.

Edit. After he downed his last double shot of Jack Daniel's, I heard him remark, "Now that is a complementizer."

CalifJim · Answer

The noun phrase in question is:
that reactions can happen slower at lower temperatures
Informally stated, anything that occurs in its context the way a noun might occur is a noun phrase. All subjects and objects are noun phrases, even if they are lengthy groups of words.
The person whom I saw yesterday at the supermarket was carrying an umbrella.
Noun phrases: the person, whom, I, the supermarket, the person whom I saw yesterday at the supermarket, an umbrella.
The problem is that she tripped on a display case and fell on the floor.
Noun phrases: the problem, she, a display case, the floor, that she tripped on a display case and fell on the floor.
To be or not to be; that is the question.
Noun phrases: to be, not to be, to be or not to be, that, the question.
The fact that I saw him there proves that he was not in the hospital.
Noun phrases: the fact, I, him, he, hospital, that I saw him there, that he was not in the hospital
____
Some more traditional approaches exclude the pronouns (I, him, whom, ...), but they are also replacements for nouns, so they count as noun phrases in the more recent approaches.
As you see from the examples above, noun phrases can occur "nested". A noun phrase can occur within another noun phrase.
CJ

CalifJim · Answer

Avangi"Now that is a complementizer."

LOL
CJ

Avangi · Answer

Thanks, CJ. I don't know why I thought it was so mysterious. I guess I could think of it as analogous to a participial phrase being so-named because it starts with a participle, but at the same time being an adjectival phrase because it functions as an adjective in modifying a noun.

- A.

Is this "that" a determiner or a relative pronoun?

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