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Usenet Posted 22 years ago
Usage
Is "The door is opened" grammatical?
[nq:2](1b) The door is opened[/nq]
[nq:1]But (1b) isn't a grammatical sentence of English. "The door is opened" tout court is not grammatical. With context, it can be grammatical.[/nq]
You assessment of this claim, please.
Thanks,
R.
[nq:1]But (1b) isn't a grammatical sentence of English. "The door is opened" tout court is not grammatical. With context, it can be grammatical.[/nq]
You assessment of this claim, please.
Thanks,
R.
Top answer
[/nq] This is a remarkable thread. When presented with a statement that is capable of a straightforward interpretation, under which it is constructed in accordance with sound grammar, we begin by assuming that it *is* that grammatical, and thus valid, statement; we will only change our minds if the context makes it clear that the sentence as cast is an incorrect formation for some different idea than that it first appeared to convey. Likewise, though much less common, is the case in which we are presented with a sentence that by any straightforward interpretation appears to be grammatically incorrect, but with a sufficiently contorted and unlikely context may after all be read as a grammatically correct expression.
- [/nq] This is a remarkable thread.
- When presented with a statement that is capable of a straightforward interpretation, under which it is constructed in accordance with sound grammar, we begin by assuming that it *is* that grammatical, and thus valid, statement; we will only change our minds if the context makes it clear that the sentence as cast is an incorrect formation for some different idea than that it first appeared to convey.
- Likewise, though much less common, is the case in which we are presented with a sentence that by any straightforward interpretation appears to be grammatically incorrect, but with a sufficiently contorted and unlikely context may after all be read as a grammatically correct expression.
- Such instances are unsound language use, and are normally reserved for soi-disant "clever" writers attempting to show that they can, after all, make a silk purse of a sow's ear.
- Jolly good for them, jolly bad for anyone obliged to read or hear them.
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83 Answers
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[nq:2]But (1b) isn't a grammatical sentence of English.[/nq]
This is a remarkable thread.
When presented with a statement that is capable of a straightforward interpretation, under which it is constructed in accordance with sound grammar, we begin by assuming that it *is* that grammatical, and thus valid, statement; we will only change our minds if the context makes it clear that the sente
This is a remarkable thread.
When presented with a statement that is capable of a straightforward interpretation, under which it is constructed in accordance with sound grammar, we begin by assuming that it *is* that grammatical, and thus valid, statement; we will only change our minds if the context makes it clear that the sente
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I would say that usually you interpolate an appropriate context based on an utterance, if it seems grammatical by itself. 1b does, and what it suggests is a pronouncement at an official function, like 'The ribbon is cut.' It's not a substitute for 'The door is open.', though.
john
john
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[nq:2]: You assessment of this claim, please.[/nq]
[nq:1]I would say that usually you interpolate an appropriate context based on an utterance, if it seems grammatical by itself. ... pronouncement at an official function, like 'The ribbon is cut.' It's not a substitute for 'The door is open.', though.[/nq]
That sounds entirely reasonable. In the context of a story:
The door is ope
[nq:1]I would say that usually you interpolate an appropriate context based on an utterance, if it seems grammatical by itself. ... pronouncement at an official function, like 'The ribbon is cut.' It's not a substitute for 'The door is open.', though.[/nq]
That sounds entirely reasonable. In the context of a story:
The door is ope
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[nq:1]Hardly controversial, I think. I does not seem likely that[/nq]
"It does not ..."
R.
"It does not ..."
R.
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[nq:2]I would say that usually you interpolate an appropriate context ... It's not a substitute for 'The door is open.', though.[/nq]
[nq:1]That sounds entirely reasonable. In the context of a story: The door is opened. A man walks in. He says ... likely that sentences 2 and 3 make sentence 1 more grammatical than it would have been were they not there.[/nq]
I agree. I don't understand why
[nq:1]That sounds entirely reasonable. In the context of a story: The door is opened. A man walks in. He says ... likely that sentences 2 and 3 make sentence 1 more grammatical than it would have been were they not there.[/nq]
I agree. I don't understand why
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[nq:2]That sounds entirely reasonable. In the context of a story: ... grammatical than it would have been were they not there.[/nq]
[nq:1]I agree. I don't understand why "The door is opened" is considered not grammatical, and would welcome an explanation.[/nq]
P. Daniels is, as yet, the only person who has spoken in favour of the claim. He has not produced a syllable of serious argument. I
[nq:1]I agree. I don't understand why "The door is opened" is considered not grammatical, and would welcome an explanation.[/nq]
P. Daniels is, as yet, the only person who has spoken in favour of the claim. He has not produced a syllable of serious argument. I
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An Sat, 06 Mar 2004 15:06:57 +0000, sgrìobh Rolleston (Email Removed):
The claim is nionsense - it's grammatical tout court.
If a sentence is grammatical in some contect, then it;s a grammatical sentence.
If you look at a sequence of sentences like
"What happens when he knocks on the door?"
"A challenge-responmse dialogue ensues."
"What happens at the end of that
The claim is nionsense - it's grammatical tout court.
If a sentence is grammatical in some contect, then it;s a grammatical sentence.
If you look at a sequence of sentences like
"What happens when he knocks on the door?"
"A challenge-responmse dialogue ensues."
"What happens at the end of that
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[nq:2]:[/nq]
[nq:1]The claim is nionsense - it's grammatical tout court. But I don't think there's any need to bother with all ... can affcst the issue of whether a sentence (as opposed to something other than a sentence) is grammatical or not.[/nq]
I can't either. In addition, I didn't actually provide a sentence in the first place. There is no full stop in (1b). The example was only ever
[nq:1]The claim is nionsense - it's grammatical tout court. But I don't think there's any need to bother with all ... can affcst the issue of whether a sentence (as opposed to something other than a sentence) is grammatical or not.[/nq]
I can't either. In addition, I didn't actually provide a sentence in the first place. There is no full stop in (1b). The example was only ever
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[nq:1]P. Daniels is, as yet, the only person who has spoken in favour of the claim. He has not produced a syllable of serious argument. It's all very curious. I do prefer proper arguments to vague assertions.[/nq]
Rolleston,
On November 11th 2003 Peter Daniels initiated a thread in sci.lang entitled
"is dead"
with quote marks included. The content of that initial post is"
Rolleston,
On November 11th 2003 Peter Daniels initiated a thread in sci.lang entitled
"is dead"
with quote marks included. The content of that initial post is"
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(snip)
[nq:2]That sounds entirely reasonable. In the context of a story: ... grammatical than it would have been were they not there.[/nq]
[nq:1]I agree. I don't understand why "The door is opened" is considered not grammatical, and would welcome an explanation. For ... independent agent, and my addition implies reflexivity. I understand, though, that some people do not find the passive vo
[nq:2]That sounds entirely reasonable. In the context of a story: ... grammatical than it would have been were they not there.[/nq]
[nq:1]I agree. I don't understand why "The door is opened" is considered not grammatical, and would welcome an explanation. For ... independent agent, and my addition implies reflexivity. I understand, though, that some people do not find the passive vo
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