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Hello everybody.Should we use the indefinite article when we say for the first time a word  our listener doesn't know for sure?"He gave me AAA that belonged to his daughter."I believe that in my example "the AAA" should be used, but if the listener for sure hasn't heard the word, should we use "a" instead? Is there such a rule?Thanks.

Mister Micawber · Accepted Answer

??????? ???????Should we use the indefinite article when we say for the first time a word our listener doesn't know for sure?"He gave me AAA that belonged to his daughter."I believe that in my example "the AAA" should be used, but if the listener for sure hasn't heard the word, should we use "a" instead?

It is hard to give you a definitive answer for all AAAs, but when followed by a defining relative clause ('...that...'), either article is usually accepted and both are in common use.

CalifJim · Answer

??????? ???????Should we use the indefinite article when we say for the first time a word our listener doesn't know for sure?

That's usually how it works, yes, but it depends what you mean by "a word our listener doesn't know for sure". I assume you are not referring to cases where the listener simply doesn't know the meaning of the word as shown in a dictionary, because that has nothing to do with it. The choice of articles is highly context-dependent, and the context is quite often extra-linguistic, i.e., having to do with the real-world situation, not always just with the words that are used.

Suppose the question is "What did he give you?" Suppose your AAA is 'sweater'. Now you have only two choices.

1. He gave me a sweater that belonged to his daughter.
2. He gave me the sweater that belonged to his daughter.

The speaker of 1 is saying what was given in a general way. A sweater is not a necklace or a book, for example.
The speaker of 2 is saying not only generally what was given (a sweater), but which sweater was given, from among all the sweaters it could possibly have been, where the speaker and listener may have some common idea of what all these possible sweaters could be.
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There is no single easy grammatical rule, if that's what you want. There are many extremely complicated rules which are nearly impossible to enumerate and specify. Whole chapters of books are written on this subject.

CJ

Anonymous · Answer

Thanks!

CalifJimI assume you are not referring to cases where the listener simply doesn't know the meaning of the word as shown in a dictionary, because that has nothing to do with it.

Funny enough, I meant what if we know that the listener has never heard of a word so he has no idea what it is.

From your answer, I see that it never influence the choice of articles, right? The point is in the current discourse of the sentence?

CalifJim · Answer

??????? ???????I meant what if we know that the listener has never heard of a word so he has no idea what it is.

OK. You're talking about something like when you're teaching someone a new word. In other words, you're defining a word for the first time. Yes, in definitions we use the indefinite article (if the noun is countable).

A walrus is an animal that ....
An amethyst is a mineral that ....

But:

"Walrus" means ...
"Amethyst" means ...

CJ

Anonymous · Answer

Thanks. I meant when we use a word in context, not defining it there <img class='emoticon' style='Width:19px;Height:19px;' data-delaysrc='https://uat-englishforward-forums-backend.s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/Emoticons/1.gif' src='https://uat-englishforward-forums-backend.s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/Emoticons/1.gif' alt='Emotion: smile'/> What rule applies then?

CalifJim · Answer

??????? ???????What rule applies then?

Then all the usual rules apply as for a known word. I don't think the speaker can always know whether the listener is familiar with a given word or not, so the speaker has to assume the listener knows the word and ignore the possibility that the listener might not know the word.

Here is some general information I've written elsewhere on articles, but I'll repeat it here.

If you believe you have enough information in your sentence to specify exactly which entity you are referring to, use the.

Put the eggs in the refrigerator. [The listener can see exactly which eggs you want in the refrigerator and exactly which refrigerator you want him to put them in. For example, the eggs may be together in a single carton on the table right in front of the listener, and there is only one refrigerator in the room. So you know which eggs and which refrigerator, and the listener also knows which eggs and which refrigerator.]
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If you are referring to an example of a certain entity, but not a specific one, use a/an.
If you are referring to any example, and it doesn't matter which one, use a/an.
(No article for plurals in this case.)

Just to be safe, you should always put eggs in a refrigerator. [This is a general rule. It doesn't matter which eggs; it doesn't matter which refrigerator. The statement isn't talking about a specific group of eggs, but about any eggs you might buy at any time. It's not about a specific refrigerator, but about any refrigerator, because any refrigerator will keep any eggs cold.]

Here are some links to more posts on the use of articles. You may find them useful.

Article2

CJ

Anonymous · Answer

Thanks CJ for answering.

I would like to ask one more question for now, please.
In the topic "Is "that" here restrictive or non-restrictive?" there are two examples:

1) You don't remember John? He's a man that I met last week.
2) You don't remember John? He's the man that I met last week.

About the second example you wrote that here we talk about the man both speakers understand who it is.

On another forum just now I was told that saying:

I was walking in the field near my house

means that there is only one field there and I was walking there.

But I thought that here we just talk about a specific field, but there can be other fields near the house as well. Now I don't know what to think.
I thought that for a person who knows that there are several fields near my house and knows which field specifically I talk about, this construction is ok.

And for the listener who has no idea about the quantity of fields near my home, it would be understood maybe I have others as well?? As to say this sentence with "a field" instead like "the field" = "a field" here.

But what is correct then? What I wrote or what I was told on another forum?

And in example about the man #2 we also see "the man" - but what it implies then? That this is the only man I met last week or just a specific man among others I met last week, and the listener knows who it is?

Please, help to untangle this comprehensive mess

Thanks.

CalifJim · Answer

??????? ???????On another forum just now I was told that saying:I was walking in the field near my house means that there is only one field there and I was walking there.

Comparing 1 and 2 below, we see that both use 'the'. That means that in both cases the speaker has made the determination that the words that follow 'the' are sufficient for the listener to know exactly which real-world object he is referring to. Both 'man' and 'field' are singular, so that's sufficient to indicate that there is only one referent. Whether we point this out in our explanations of these phrases (or not) doesn't change the fact that the speaker expects the listener to pick out only one man in 1 and only one field in 2.

1. the man that I met last week
2. the field near my house

??????? ???????But I thought that here we just talk about a specific field, but there can be other fields near the house as well. Now I don't know what to think.

If there were other fields near the house as well, the speaker of 2 has used 'the' incorrectly because he should be using 'the' with a singular noun only when the following words are sufficient to specify a unique referent. If the listener knows there is more than one field near the speaker's house and he hears the speaker say 2, he will immediately become puzzled and ask "Which field do you mean?" Similarly, if the listener knows there is more than one man that I met last week and he hears the speaker say 1, he will immediately become puzzled and ask "Which man do you mean?"

??????? ???????And for the listener who has no idea about the quantity of fields near my home, it would be understood maybe I have others as well??

No. The logic doesn't go that way. When a listener is ignorant of the number of fields near the speaker's house, he will assume there is only one if he hears sentence 2 above. The listener puts his trust in the speaker to specify enough information so that the listener can validly draw this conclusion.

If I tell you, "The rose bush in my front yard has died", you must conclude that I now no longer have any living rose bushes in my front yard. The only one I had has died.

??????? ???????But what is correct then? What I wrote or what I was told on another forum?

I don't see any contradiction. As explained at the top of this post, it all has to do with "sufficient information to specify a unique referent".

??????? ???????And in example about the man #2 we also see "the man" - but what it implies then? That this is the only man I met last week or just a specific man among others I met last week, and the listener knows who it is?

It might be the only man I met last week or it might be only one man among others. That doesn't matter. What matters is that the speaker has determined that the words 'man that I met last week' contain enough information for the listener to know what the speaker is talking about.

In this case, this can only happen successfully if the speaker has never mentioned any other man he has met last week (if there were others) to that particular listener. If the speaker has mentioned to the listener more than one "man that he met last week" before saying 1 to the listener (probably later), the listener will be puzzled and ask "Which man do you mean?"

CJ

Anonymous · Answer

Got it, thanks for the descriptive answer. Can I say something like:

"I saw animals there. Animals were big."
"I saw animals there. Animals there were big."
"I saw animals there. Animals that were there at that moment were big"
"I saw animals there. Animals, that wete there at that moment, were big"

Can I use the second sentence in each example, with the meaning that generally those that were there were big?

"People in Japan were asked about the accident." I heard this is correct as author just talks about some people.

Can I say:
"Many people saw the accident. People who saw it donated some money" ,

If I mean that some people who saw it donated some money?

Or in such cases we should use only "the" for the second mention?

Please, help. Thanks.

Anonymous · Answer

And these:

"You can makes sites with it. Sites that you make with it will be fine."

"You can makes sites with it. Sites will be fine."

Are they both correct if I refer to indefinite sites being made by the tool? Thanks.

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