Ing form passivisation?

Question

Hi teachers;DIt's been a while!Today, I've come up with a rather hard sentences while I was studying grammar.It says,'Passive' can operate independently of be , as is shown by examples such as the followingex) They got John thrown into jail.I need my toe looking at by an experience chiropodist.We could do with our burlglar-alarm checking over by someone.What I'm confused is... passive= be ppbut there's -ing form in the second and third sentences...Need some explanation on those sentences.Thanks in advance DDDD

CalifJim · Accepted Answer

EllisaThey got John thrown into jail.

I consider this a causative construction. It just so happens that the caused action is expressed with the past (i.e., passive) participle.

EllisaI need my toe looking at by an experienced chiropodist.

I find it difficult to comment on this one because it is not part of my English. Within the community of English speakers that I belong to, this is said as

I need my toe to be looked at by an experienced chiropodist.

Or, better, I need an experienced chiropodist to look at my toe.

EllisaWe could do with our ~~burlglar-alarm~~ burglar alarm checking over by someone.

Again, it's hard for me to comment. This sentence is quite awkward in my opinion. The idiom 'could do with' is followed by a noun. We could do with more chips. So if a verb is used, it has to be in the gerund ( -ing) form.

Of the first 100 examples of 'could do with' on fraze.it, only seven are followed by a gerund, so it's not the most common construction in the world of English. That tiny shop could do with freshening up. Liverpool could do with hearing what lies beyond austerity.

Nevertheless, this is the construction in the example sentence, which starts its life like this: We could do with someone checking over our burglar alarm. The passive of the gerund clause can be used instead, thus: We could do with our burglar alarm being checked over by someone.

For some reason, the -ing from being is transferred to check and being is removed, and we end up with the example sentence: We could do with our burglar alarm checking over by someone. I do not see the justification for this final transformation, so it seems ungrammatical to me.

CJ

BillJ · Answer

Ellisa'Passive' can operate independently of be ,

Subjectless passive clauses like , say, "brought up by the porter" can be complement of the verb "be" (Your bags were brought up by the porter), or "get" (It looks like your bags got brought up by the porter, or I got your bags brought up by the porter"), or "have" (I'll have your bags brought up by the porter).

All genuinely involve passive clauses. Not all passives need "be"!

EllisaI need my toe looking at by an experience chiropodist. We could do with our burlglar-alarm checking over by someone.

"Need" can take both to-infinitival and gerund-participial passive complements:

[1] Your hair needs to be cut shorter.

[2] I need my hair cutting by a professional stylist.

The underlined element in [2] is sometimes called a 'concealed' passive. It can be glossed as "There is a need for my hair to be cut by a professional stylist".

Ing form passivisation?

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