Indefinite vs. zero article before (modified) noncount nouns

Question

I believe to have read all rules concerning articles usage but I am still having difficulty in understanding:

Why some of the modified uncountable nouns are preceded by indefinite "A(N)" and others by zero article?

Quiz: Articles with uncountable nouns

Q1 -We need someone with _a_ good knowledge of Chinese
Q2 - She speaks ____ perfect Italian.
Q3 - They have _a_ deep distrust of the authorities.
Q4 - It's ____ hard work.
Q5 - The school gave me _a_ good education.
Q6 - We've been having ___ lovely weather.
Q7 - She has _a_ good understanding of the subject
Q8 - He's in ____ good health.
Q9 - He has _a_ great love of his job.
Q10 - He caused ___ trouble for all of us.

Vchekh · Accepted Answer

That's what I tell my students:

When an uncountable noun is preceded by an adjective which denotes the speaker's personal evaluation of the noun (e.g. good education, deep distrust, great love) the indefinite article is possible. However, some uncountables have no article no matter what adjective you put before them: weather, health, progress, evidence (though I'm not 100% sure about the last one).

I'd like to ask the native speakers if the following sentences are still grammatical:
We need someone with good knowledge of Chinese. [no article]
They have deep distrust of the authorities. [no article]
The school gave me good education. [no article]
Or is the indefinite article absolutely necessary in such cases?

CalifJim · Answer

vgv8Why some of the modified uncountable nouns are preceded by indefinite "A(N)" and others by zero article?

Unfortunately, there are no simple explanations.

Here are some observations. They should not be regarded as rules.

knowledge and understanding are mental abstractions. love and distrust are emotional abstractions. (Frankly I'm uncertain about how relevant this is.) However, in all of these cases an of-phrase restricts the meaning to a specific kind of knowledge, understanding, love, or distrust. I believe that if you get into some of the theoretical complexities, these of-phrases are said to be complements of the nouns they follow, not just modifiers. Note the similarity to verbs: to know Chinese / a knowledge of Chinese; to understand the subject / an understanding of the subject; to love one's job / a love of one's job; to distrust the authorities / a distrust of the authorities.

work, weather, health, and trouble are less abstract. They are neither mental nor emotional abstractions. (Again, this may turn out not to be relevant.) But note: Hard work is not really a subclass of work in the way that a knowledge of Chinese is a subclass of knowledge, and lovely weather is not a subclass of weather in the way that a distrust of the authorities is a subclass of distrust. So hard (hard work) and lovely (lovely weather) are modifiers, not complements. As it turns out, within the contexts presented in the quiz you quoted above, there is no possibility of a work, a weather, a health, or a trouble. They are so uncountable by nature that they cannot take a/an.

a good education is probably best explained as a common idiom.

Italian is the name of a language, and these don't take a/an, or if they do, it is only in rare cases that they do.

I doubt that this discussion will resolve, once and for all, your difficulty in understanding the use of articles in English. It is a topic that needs to be returned to from time to time as your facility with English increases.

CJ

CalifJim · Answer

vchekhI'd like to ask the native speakers if the following sentences are still grammatical:
We need someone with good knowledge of Chinese. [no article]
They have deep distrust of the authorities. [no article]
The school gave me good education. [no article]
Or is the indefinite article absolutely necessary in such cases?

The first two sound strange, but not absolutely wrong, without the article. Nevertheless, I don't recommend leaving out the article. The last one is ungrammatical in my opinion and is absolutely impossible without the article. a good education is practically a set phrase.

CJ

CalifJim · Answer

vchekhWhen an uncountable noun is preceded by an adjective which denotes the speaker's personal evaluation of the noun (e.g. good education, deep distrust, great love) the indefinite article is possible. However, some uncountables have no article no matter what adjective you put before them

It's a good thing you added the sentence with "However", because without it, you don't have much of a guideline. hard in hard work and lovely in lovely weatherare both speaker evaluations.

It seems as though you're saying that if you have a speaker evaluation, you can use a/an except when you can't. That seems to make the presence of a speaker evaluation more or less irrelevant, doesn't it? Wouldn't you have the same guideline if you left out the first sentence?

CJ

Vgv8 · Answer

CalifJimI doubt that this discussion will resolve, once and for all, your difficulty in understanding the use of articles in English. It is a topic that needs to be returned to from time to time as your facility with English increases.

Well, I've got the feeling that quizz evaluated some study material which I could not identify or interpret/apply

CalifJimHowever, in all of these cases an of-phrase restricts the meaning to a specific kind of knowledge, understanding, love, or distrust.

You herer refer to uncountable prefixed by indefinite article "A":
Q1 -We need someone with _a_ good knowledge of Chinese
Q3 - They have _a_ deep distrust of the authorities.
Q5 - The school gave me _a_ good education.
Q7 - She has _a_ good understanding of the subject
Q9 - He has _a_ great love of his job.

The other half has zero article:

Q2 - She speaks ____ perfect Italian.

Q4 - It's __ hard work.

Q6 - We've been having ___ lovely weather.
Q8 - He's in ____ good health.

Q10 - He caused ___ trouble for all of us.

Rule 2 in Part 2. Articles with Uncountable Nouns: Basic Rules tells:

"When you need to point out an uncountable noun, use the definite article the. Usually, some additional information is needed in the sentence in order to use the definite article, for example, the of-phrase or a subordinate clause. The definite article here is close in meaning to "this, that".

The milk in this glass is sour.
The tea that she served smelled of mint
How accurate is the information that you have given in this report?
I am studying the history of France."

"The article a/an to show temporary or unusual aspect" in Part 4. Specific Use of the Indefinite Article a/an tells:

"In formal writing and literary works the article a/an may be used with some uncountable abstract nouns to show an unusual or temporary aspect of something. The indefinite article here means: such, certain, special, peculiar. Compare these examples.
Formal / literary style:

The director spoke at the meeting today with an enormous enthusiasm.
A paralyzing horror overwhelmed him.
She smiled at us with an unusual friendliness.

Standard / everyday style:

The director spoke at the meeting today with great enthusiasm.
He was paralyzed with horror.
She smiled at us with unusual friendliness."

The problem is that according to these rules any of the 3 articles (THE, AA(N) or zero) is possible.
I wonder how one's knowledge can be eveluated?

CalifJim · Answer

vgv8The problem is that according to these rules any of the 3 articles (THE, A(N) or zero) is possible.
I wonder how one's knowledge can be evaluated?

So you are basically complaining about the quiz! I can sympathize with you on that. Frequently, these quizzes contain questions with multiple correct answers, but list only one as "the correct one", even after instructing you in all the various ways you might answer. The confusion won't clear up over night, so you simply need to persevere and not let one poorly designed quiz divert you from your ultimate goal.

CJ

Anonymous · Answer

I was looking for an answer to this queston, and these are the best I've found:

From a Text book: http://books.google.com/books?id=WCCk829jmzUC&pg=PA214&lpg=PA214&dq=indefinite+articles+noncount+nouns&source=bl&ots=iHPUz2kClk&sig=Umv05eoAsC5e06CoTH3qkJ3nn3Y&hl=en#v=onepage&q=indefinite%20articles%20noncount%20nouns&f=false

Essentially to use the indefinite 'it' means a specific type of something.

Indefinite vs. zero article before (modified) noncount nouns

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