Indeed / in the first place / ...

Question

Hi,I've got a few english questions. I could probably find the answers in a dictionary, but I like the interactivity of this newsgroup.I'm not really sure how to use "indeed". It seems that there are several unrelated usage possibilites.For instance :First, "thank you very much indeed". Does it mean "thank you VERY VERY much" ?Second, in answering a question, "indeed" or "yes indeed". Does it mean the same as "yes, you're right" or "fair enough" ? Third, in order to emphasise stg that I want to prove to be true. For instance, "England is a rainy country. Indeed, it's raining today" or similarly, "Tom likes cricket, he's indeed playing right now.".Is this correct ? do you see any other examples ?Second question, what does mean exactly "in the first place" ? Can I say "You did it in the first place" in order to mean "You were the first that did it" ?Other question :One day I asked in an hotel. "do you have any free room ?". And the receptionist made fun of me and said. We have some rooms, but they're not free, you'll have to pay for them". Was my question wrong ? Should I have asked "do you have any room left ?" or stg else ?And finally, a question about the polite way to ask stg. An english teacher told us once that in order to ask stg politely, we should say : "I was wondering if you could... ". Or stg like that. Is it really the right way to ask or is it old-fashionned ?Thanks,BL

Usenet · Accepted Answer

B. Labévue wrote on 11 Nov 2004:
[nq:1]Hi, I've got a few english questions. I could probably find the answers in a dictionary, but I like the ... usage possibilites. For instance : First, "thank you very much indeed". Does it mean "thank you VERY VERY much" ?[/nq]
It's an emphasizer and can mean "sincerely" or "very, very much" in this case. And maybe even both.
[nq:1]Second, in answering a question, "indeed" or "yes indeed". Does it mean the same as "yes, you're right" or "fair enough" ?[/nq]
No, it is an emphasizer again and has the same meaning as above when it's "Yes, indeed". When it's just "indeed", though, it can mean a number of things, depending upon the speaker's tone of voice. Don't use it that way unless you understand it. "Yes, indeed" is fine, though.

A: Are you the Bob Smith in charge of raffle tickets? B: Yes, indeed! (= "Yes, that's me, alright".)
[nq:1]Third, in order to emphasise stg that I want to prove to be true.[/nq]
You can't prove that England is a rainy country just because it's raining today, even if you say "Indeed, it's raining today". You're in effect saying "England is a rainy country. See? It's raining today." No proof. Just a shred of evidence.
[nq:1]For instance, "England is a rainy country. Indeed, it's raining today"[/nq]
This is fine.
[nq:1]or similarly, "Tom likes cricket, he's indeed playing right now."[/nq]
This is not similar, because the structure is different and the "indeed" is in the wrong place. "Tom likes cricket. Indeed, he's playing right now."
You can see the dictionary entry at the bottom of this post for a full description of meanings and examples of usages in American English
[nq:1]Is this correct ? do you see any other examples ?[/nq]
Not in this post I don't, and if you want more examples, I suggest you google the word.
[nq:1]Second question, what does mean exactly "in the first place" ? Can I say "You did it in the first place" in order to mean "You were the first that did it" ?[/nq]
No, not at all. It is a phrase used for the first in a series of things, usually reasons why your girlfriend thinks you're a pig and is leaving you for a woman. "In the first place, you're toughtless. In the second, you snore. In the third, you never tell me I'm beautiful anymore." etc.
[nq:1]Other question : One day I asked in an hotel. "do you have any free room ?". And the receptionist ... Was my question wrong ? Should I have asked "do you have any room left ?" or stg else ?[/nq]
"Do you have any rooms available?"
[nq:1]And finally, a question about the polite way to ask stg. An english teacher told us once that in order ... you could... ". Or stg like that. Is it really the right way to ask or is it old-fashionned ?[/nq]
Regardless of what anyone tells you, being polite is a good thing and not old-fashioned, unless you're talking to some snot-nosed punk.
The way to be polite is to use modal auxiliaries and to make the sentence longer by adding an apology (e.g., "Excuse me for interrupting you, but I wonder if I might ask you not to smoke. I've got asthma and cigarette smoke makes me cough and wheeze terribly.") and what that English teacher told you. However, as in all cultures and languages, there are levels of politeness. People will think you are strange if you are always superpolite and rude if you are never polite at all.

But in English it's a bit difficult to explain how to be polite without a context. Usually, a simple "Excuse me, but {do you have the time / may I *** a cigarette / can you tell me how to get to the post office}?" is polite enough. Or if you're in someone's house and you need to pee, you can say "Excuse me, but where is the {bathroom / loo}?"

Franke: EFL teacher & medical editor
For email, replace numbers with English alphabet.

Usenet · Answer

B. Labévue wrote on 11 Nov 2004:
[nq:1]Hi, I've got a few english questions. I could probably find the answers in a dictionary, but I like the interactivity of this newsgroup.[/nq]
I forgot the dictionary entry in my earlier post:
Main Entry:indeed
Function:adverb
Etymology:Middle English in dede, from 1 in + dede deed1 a : in very fact : without any question : in truth : TRULY,CERTAINLY, ASSUREDLY, POSITIVELY was indeed glad to see her* used as an intensive often postpositively *was glad indeed* *was a king indeed* *found themselves in real trouble indeed* and sometimes to reiterate a remark of another speaker *you may well ask who knows how it will end; who knows, indeed* often used as an interjection to express irony or disbelief or surprise b : by all means : by any means used to emphasize a reply or remark made in answer to an actual or implied question *yes indeed I intend to go* *no indeed they aren't away c : REALLY, HONESTLY used interrogatively to indicate that one seeks confirmation from a speaker that a statement just made by the speaker is really true *indeed? You would like to go home?*

2 : in reality : so far as the truth of the matter is concerned : inactual fact used to indicate or emphasize that something stated or about to be stated is true and is at the same time opposed to something stated or implied or about to be stated or implied that is either untrue or merely external or apparent what seems to be cause for grief is indeed a reason for joy* *they were indeed heroes, though the world failed to recognize them as such
3 : all things considered : as a matter of fact : so far as that goesused to confirm or amplify something stated he likes to have things his own way; indeed, he can be quite a tyrant* *she is quite stupid, indeed a simpleton

4 : ADMITTEDLY, UNDENIABLY the problems involved are indeed seriousones, but I am convinced they can be solved

Franke: EFL teacher & medical editor
For email, replace numbers with English alphabet.

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]Hi, I've got a few english questions. I could probably find the answers in a dictionary,[/nq]
try Swan - Practical English Usage
[nq:1]but I like the interactivity of this newsgroup. I'm not really sure how to use "indeed". It seems that there are several unrelated usage possibilites. For instance : First, "thank you very much indeed". Does it mean "thank you VERY VERY much" ?[/nq]
Yes. It's going one step beyond 'very' where 'very very' would sound silly. You could say 'I like her very much indeed'.
[nq:1]Second, in answering a question, "indeed"[/nq]
depending on intonation - say with a fall-rise, this could mean "you might think that but I don't" or with flat intonation "that's not very interesting". "Oh, really" works the same way.
[nq:1]or "yes indeed". Does it mean the same as "yes, you're right" or "fair enough" ?[/nq]
Yes, but check how people actually say this with your teacher.
[nq:1]Third, in order to emphasise stg that I want to prove to be true. For instance, "England is a rainy country. Indeed, it's raining today"[/nq]
Fine
[nq:1]or similarly, "Tom likes cricket, he's indeed playing right now.".[/nq]
No, not really. More likely would be "Tom likes cricket, in fact he's playing right now.".
[nq:1]Second question, what does mean exactly "in the first place" ? Can I say "You did it in the first place" in order to mean "You were the first that did it" ?[/nq]
No. It's a discourse marker to introduce ideas:-
"Look, I'm really fed up. In the first place you said you'd be here half an hour ago. Secondly, we agreed you weren't going to bring your mother..."
[nq:1]Other question : One day I asked in an hotel. "do you have any free room ?". And the receptionist made fun of me and said. We have some rooms, but they're not free, you'll have to pay for them".[/nq]
The words 'smartarse git' spring to mind. Lets hope (s)he gets someone equally helpful if (s)he has to book a hotel room in your country. This sort of behavoir is very typically of Brits in service industries:-
"Have you got a room?"
"Yes, thank-you".
and thoroughly ****** me off.
[nq:1]Was my question wrong ? Should I have asked "do you have any room left ?" or stg else ?[/nq]
You need a plural "do you have any room s (left)?" but otherwise it's fine.
[nq:1]And finally, a question about the polite way to ask stg. An english teacher told us once that in order ... you could... ". Or stg like that. Is it really the right way to ask or is it old-fashionned ?[/nq]
No, that's perfectly correct B. British English tends to avoid using absolutely direct questions. If someone comes up to you in the street and says "what's the time?" it's seen as rude or abrupt, and may get a brusque response. Something like "Excuse me, I was wondering if you'd got the time?" may be a mouthful, but will get a courteous response. Despite what you might think, Americans are even more prone to this sort of elaborate politeness. If you think about it, the same sort of thing probably happens in French.
salut
DC

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]Hi,[/nq]
[nq:1]Second question, what does mean exactly "in the first place" ? Can I say "You did it in the first place" in order to mean "You were the first that did it" ?[/nq]
Despite what the Franke and Django told you there is another usage that more or less means what you say. I'm not certain if this usage is used in other forms of English but it's quite common in Irish English and I've also heard it used in British English. It's often used in arguments about who's to blame for something. E.g. "You shouldn't have done that!" - "Why not. After all you did it in the first place!" (i.e. you did it before I did).
REgards, Einde O'Callaghan

Usenet · Answer

[nq:2]Other question : One day I asked in an hotel. ... but they're not free, you'll have to pay for them".[/nq]
[nq:1]The words 'smartarse git' spring to mind. Lets hope (s)he gets someone equally helpful if (s)he has to book a ... is very typically of Brits in service industries:- "Have you got a room?" "Yes, thank-you". and thoroughly ****** me off.[/nq]
Remember not to make such jokes in DC's presence.
[nq:2]Was my question wrong ? Should I have asked "do you have any room left ?" or stg else ?[/nq]
[nq:1]You need a plural "do you have any room s (left)?" but otherwise it's fine.[/nq]
I'll just add that while "Do you have any free rooms?" is OK, I think "Do you have any rooms free?" is better, not least because it reduces the likelihood of getting a joke answer.

Mark Barratt
Budapest

Usenet · Answer

einde. ocallaghan wrote on 12 Nov 2004:
[nq:2]Hi,[/nq]
[nq:2]Second question, what does mean exactly "in the first place" ... to mean "You were the first that did it" ?[/nq]
[nq:1]Despite what the Franke and Django told you there is another usage that more or less means what you say. ... that!" - "Why not. After all you did it in the first place!" (i.e. you did it before I did).[/nq]
I hadn't thought of that usage when I responded, but I agree. I understood "You were the first (who) did it" to mean something like "Nobody had ever done that before you did it".

Franke: EFL teacher & medical editor
For email, replace numbers with English alphabet.

Indeed / in the first place / ...

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