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Tenacious Learner Posted 13 years ago
Grammar

'including' synonym for 'with'

Hi teachers,
Would 'including' be an appropriate synonym for 'with' in the following sentence?
There is a plate with four cookies.

Thanks in advance.
  

Top answer

There is a plate with four cookies. I would say "No". It's a very strange sentence.

— CalifJim

  • There is a plate with four cookies.
  • I would say "No".
  • It's a very strange sentence.
  • It's hard to work with synonym questions when the sentence itself is difficult to conceptualize.
  • For one thing, it's unclear whether you're using existential there or locative there .
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16 Answers
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Tenacious LearnerWould 'including' be an appropriate synonym for 'with' in the following sentence?There is a plate with four cookies.
I would say "No". It's a very strange sentence. It's hard to work with synonym questions when the sentence itself is difficult to conceptualize.
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Hi Jim,
Thanks for your reply. Should the blue sentence be changed? There is synonym or paraphrase for that 'with'?

This is the whole paragraph. The context is part of a longer fictional narrative for beginners:
In the kitchen there are two cabinets on the wall and a long table with two chairs. There is a coffeepot on the table. There's also a cup and a saucer near the coffeepot a
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Tenacious LearnerThere's also a cup and a saucer near the coffeepot and a plate with four cookies.
This is a tough one.

... and a plate having on it four cookies.
... and a plate that has four cookies on it.

And absurdly,

... and a plate holding four cookies.
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Hi Jim,
Thanks for your reply.
The thing is that there's a drawing for that paragraph. Let me attach it here.
CalifJimA sentence with existential there makes little sense without the phrase that tells us where the subject (plate) is.
That's true. The existential 'there' needs the position.

TL
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Tenacious Learnera drawing
The drawing is not coming through. That is, I can't see it.

On the other hand, do you think it's really necessary? I don't think it will add much to our discussions of synonyms and paraphrases for 'with'. I'd say it's not worth the trouble to fuss with trying to make the drawing appear in a post.
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Hi Jim,
Thanks.
CalifJimThe drawing is not coming through. That is, I can't see it.
That's true. I can't either.
CalifJimI'd say it's not worth the trouble to fuss with trying to make the drawing appear in a post.
You are right!

Then, I have to rephrase the following sentence, 'There's also a cup and saucer near
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Hello, all..., and sorry to **** in like this Emotion: stick out tongue
Tenacious LearnerWould this one be correct?
In
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Tenacious LearnerThere is a coffeepot on the table and a cup and a saucer and a plate near the coffeepot. There are also four cookies on the plate.
As shown. You can't reference "the" plate when you haven't even mentioned anything about the presence of any plate yet.

CJ
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CalifJimYou can't reference "the" plate when you haven't even mentioned anything about the presence of any plate yet.
Hi Jim,
Thanks! Of course. Silly me.
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Hi Surfer,
Thanks for your comments.Emotion: yes

TL
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