? ...inclined to that that... ?

Question

Good time of day,«...I am inclined to that that you and Her Majesty should do very much as you personally want to do...»Is the double "that" ok in the above sentence?

BarbaraPA · Accepted Answer

I'm sorry, but I have no idea what that sentence is trying to say.

Nef · Answer

Ant_222Good time of day, «...I am inclined to that that you and Her Majesty should do very much as you personally want to do...» Is the double "that" ok in the above sentence?

I agree with GG. This sentence seems confusing. It might mean that the speaker (or writer) is inclined to the thing that "you and Her Majesty" want to do; inclined to whatever "you and Her Majesty" want to do. But it isn't clear. Instead of using a double "that", I'd want to say:

I am inclined to think (or believe) that you and Her Majesty should do very much as you personally want to do.

or

I think (or believe) that you and Her Majesty should do very much as you personally want to do.

or

My inclination is that you and Her Majesty should do very much as you personally want to do.

Ant_222 · Answer

Maybe I should have provided the full sentence. Here it is:
«You and I are fully aware of the demands of the Protocol people, but, having had much experience with them, I am inclined to that that you and Her Majesty should do very much as you personally want to do -- and I will see to it over here that your decision becomes the right decision.»
(a letter from Franklis Roosevelt to king George)

And thank you very much, you have already written what I wanted to know.

Marius Hancu · Answer

Yes, the original poster should've provided a full quote. Here it is:

---------
http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0oGkihoNuhE3y8BbXtXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTE3YjJnaTVqBGNvbG8DdwRsA1dTMQRwb3MDMQRzZWMDc3IEdnRpZANGNjY1XzEyMg--/SIG=121vtr1tg/EXP=1156155368/**http%3a//www.fdrlibrary.marist.edu/invitat.html

My dear King George:-

You and I are fully aware of the demands of the Protocol people, but,
having had much experience with them, I am inclined to that that you
and Her Majesty should do very much as you personally want to do --
and I will see to it over here that your decision becomes the right
decision.

Franklin D. Roosevelt
------
I have no problem going through it; to me it seems obvious that Nef's 1st interpretation is right on target:

I am inclined to think (or believe) that you and Her Majesty should do very much as you personally want to do.

Aperisic · Answer

Ant_222Good time of day, «...I am inclined to that that you and Her Majesty should do very much as you personally want to do...» Is the double "that" ok in the above sentence?

Yes

I am inclined to that that you and = I am inclined to the fact that you and

Marius Hancu · Answer

BTW,
that that
is quite frequent in the literature:

The Longest Journey by Forster, EM
"Inside that there's a paragraph written about something Stewart's written about before, and there it says he's read too much Hegel, and it seems
now that that's been the trouble all along."

Love Among the Chickens by Wodehouse, Pelham Grenville
What did it matter after that that the *** in charge of the Waterloo
bookstall had never heard of "The Manoeuvres of Arthur," and that my
publishers, whenever I slunk in to ask how it was selling, looked at
me with a sort of grave, paternal pity and said that it had not really
"begun to move?"

Turn of the ***** by James, Henry
"Certainly you shall go back to school," I said, "if it be that that troubles you. But not to the old place--we must find another, a better. How could I know it did trouble you, this question, when you never told me so, never spoke of it at all?"

Nef · Answer

Marius HancuBTW,
that that
is quite frequent in the literature:

The Longest Journey by Forster, EM
"Inside that there's a paragraph written about something Stewart's written about before, and there it says he's read too much Hegel, and it seems
now that that's been the trouble all along."

Love Among the Chickens by Wodehouse, Pelham Grenville
What did it matter after that that the *** in charge of the Waterloo
bookstall had never heard of "The Manoeuvres of Arthur," and that my
publishers, whenever I slunk in to ask how it was selling, looked at
me with a sort of grave, paternal pity and said that it had not really
"begun to move?"

Turn of the ***** by James, Henry
"Certainly you shall go back to school," I said, "if it be that that troubles you. But not to the old place--we must find another, a better. How could I know it did trouble you, this question, when you never told me so, never spoke of it at all?"

That is interesting, Marius.

But I think these are the approximate original publication dates:

Love Among the Chickens – 1920

The Longest Journey – 1924

The Turn of the ***** - 1898

---------------------------

Personal opinion:

From a historical perspective, these publication dates are in very recent times. But consider that "computer" was in few, if any, dictionaries 40 years ago! English evolves (I'm not saying that it always "progresses"), and not just because of technology. And I'm not sure that anyoneever spoke for long periods of time in quite the way that Henry James wrote.

I just asked someone if the sentence "I hope that that is true" caused her any problems in interpreting it. She said no. She thought the sentence was just fine and easy to understand.

Then I showed her the original sentence in this post. She got confused. Maybe the confusion is due to a combination of a fairly long sentence, a somewhat unfamiliar situation, and that that. It would be interesting to hear what some other people think.

In another thread, I mentioned that I liked to read Jane Austen, but that I wouldn't necessarily want to talk like one of her characters. I want people to be able to understand me, and I am not able to talk to Austen's (or Wodehouse's, or Forster's, or James') contemporaries. I need to talk to mine.

-------------------------------

(Edited to add that the person I asked reads almost constantly and is a native speaker of North
American English.)

Ant_222 · Answer

Finally! Thank you, Aperisic, fot a direct answer.

Marius, could explain the double-that structure in the quotation from "Love Among the Chickens"? Can the "that that" be just omitted there?

CalifJim · Answer

http://www.fdrlibrary.marist.edu/psf/box38/t343a02.html

I find it hard to believe that a simple misprint of that for think could have generated such a long discussion.
You know, sometimes nonsense is really nonsense, and there's no point in trying to save it from itself.

CJ

Marius Hancu · Answer

Ant_222Marius, could explain the double-that structure in the quotation from "Love Among the Chickens"? Can the "that that" be just omitted there?

You're talking about:
------------
Love Among the Chickens by Wodehouse, Pelham Grenville

What did it matter after that that the *** in charge of the Waterloo
bookstall had never heard of "The Manoeuvres of Arthur," and that my
publishers, whenever I slunk in to ask how it was selling, looked at
me with a sort of grave, paternal pity and said that it had not really
"begun to move?"
------------

One possible rewrite could be:

What did it matter after that moment that the *** in charge of the Waterloo
bookstall had never heard of .... ?

Another:

What did it matter after that, that the *** in charge of the Waterloo
bookstall had never heard of .... [a comma separates quite well the things here]?

Another:

After that happened, was it of any importance that the *** in charge of the Waterloo bookstall had never heard of .... ?

? ...inclined to that that... ?

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