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Taka Posted 18 years ago
Grammar

in order to

It seems that those students know what to do in order to get efficient at English.

(1)...those students know [what to do in order to get efficient at English]
(i.e. 'in order to' is within the scope of 'what to do')

(2)....those students know [what to do] in order to get efficient at English.
(i.e. 'in order to' is out of the scope of 'what to do')

Somehow I know it's (1), but I cannot really explain why it's not (2).

If you were teaching in an ELS class, how would you explain why it's not (2) to your students?
  

Top answer

Not sure what you mean. Is this ESL-speak? : I know what to do in order to kill a fly.

— Avangi

  • Not sure what you mean.
  • Is this ESL-speak?
  • : I know what to do in order to kill a fly.
  • I know how to kill a fly.
  • " is optional or non-essential?
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9 Answers
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Not sure what you mean. Is this ESL-speak?

Would the distinction be clear if you substituted "how" for "what to do in order"?:

I know what to do in order to kill a fly. I know how to kill a fly.

Are you suggesting that in case (2) the sentence is really, "I know what to do," and "in order to etc." is optional or non-essential?
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how would you explain why it's not (2) to your students?
No infinitives of purpose after verbs of mental state or perception. If there's only a mental state and no true agent or action, can there be a purpose? Certain facts in the world don't (indeed, can't) have purposes.

*I know these facts in order to pass the exam.
*John understands the lesson i
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Hi Taka,

A small aside.

to get efficient at English This is a rather odd phrase. It sounds like one is perhaps trying to express one's meaning using as few words as possible, or even trying to speak very, very quickly .
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CalifJimNo infinitives of purpose after verbs of mental state or perception. I

*I know these facts in order to pass the exam.
Yes, I'd try to generalize it that way too. But this can work, can't it?

I should know these facts in order to pass the exam.

Clive,

Yes, that word fits much better. Thanks.
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So neither (1) nor (2) would be acceptable?
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But this can work, can't it?

I should know these facts in order to pass the exam.

Yes. That works. Here the modal should implies that some action is advisable, and that action is knowing the facts. But knowing facts is not an action, so the whole structure must be anomalous. Or is it?

Not really. Here our brains automat
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Good. Thanks, Jim. But what about the other kinds of stative verbs, such as, say, 'have'.

We have this formula in order to solve the problem.

I think this sentence works, even without an auxiliary verb. Why do you think when it comes to stative verbs of perception it won't work?
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I hear have as a stand-in for obtained or acquired.
______

My mention of verbs of mental state or perception was not thought through with any attempt at mathematical precision. Treat it as more of a suggestion for further thought on the matter. I left it to you, the reader, to determine with more accuracy (through your own research) exactly which
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I see.

Thanks, Jim!
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