In and by

Question

Dear all,I am not sure the different meanings between by and in in the following two sentences.Could you explain them for me? Thank you very much.By 1960, the world's population reached three billion.Does by mean before or during the 1960s.In 1999, we passed six billion.  In 1999 means the year of 1999?

CSnyder · Accepted Answer

"By X" means "at some time before X".  "In X" means "In the period of time which constitutes X".  If you say "by 1960" you mean "at the instant it became 1960, Y had already occurred".  If you say "in 1960" you mean "at sometime during 1960, Y occurred".

Canadian45 · Answer

adonis1013By 1960, the world's population reached three billion. Does by mean before or during the 1960s. It means in 1960.

In 1999, we passed six billion. In 1999 means in the year (of) 1999? yes

c45

Canadian45 · Answer

CSnyder"By X" means "at some time before X". (my underlining)
I don't agree. The underlined simply means 'before X'.

Sometimes 'by X' means at/on X or earlier', in other words 'not later than X'.

I want my money by Tuesday. (= not later than Tuesday)

If you say "by 1960" you mean "at the instant it became 1960, Y had already occurred". (my underlining) The underlined clearly means it occurred before 1960.

In the sentence in question 'by 1960' means in 1960. (as opposed to 'before 1960')

CSnyder · Answer

Yes, people often use "by Tuesday" to mean "either before or on Tuesday" when referring to deadlines.  However, I consider that statement to be an elision of the longer phrase "by [the end of] Tuesday" or "by [close of business] Tuesday". In fact, this phrasing is occasionally made explicit in order to remove all doubt about what "by Tuesday" means. If you think about how "by X" is used in other contexts (e.g. "by the time Monday rolled around he was long gone", "by the time WWII began in 1939, Hitler's militancy had been a growing concern in Europe for ten years", etc.) you can see that it's almost always taken to mean "at the instant the time was X, Y had already occurred".

Dimsumexpress · Answer

"By X" means "at some time before X". I agree with this.

The underlined simply means 'before X'. I also agrgee with this. I think if one wants to be precise, he would have written in that way. "By" is meant to be an approximation. In the context discussed, "By 1960..." it meant time before first second of 1961.

You said:

In the sentence in question 'by 1960' means in 1960. (as opposed to 'before 1960')

You certain can argue your point but for me, I have to agree with CSnyder. Consider this article:

>>>"Popular during the Great Depression, layaway programs had all but faded away by the turn of the century as shoppers turned to credit cards to shop," writes Andrea …
www.mediapost.com/publications/article/158206>>>>>

Canadian45 · Answer

CSnyderYes, people often use "by Tuesday" to mean "either before or on Tuesday" when referring to deadlines. However, I consider that statement to be an elision of the longer phrase "by [the end of] Tuesday" or "by [close of business] Tuesday". In fact, this phrasing is occasionally made explicit in order to remove all doubt about what "by Tuesday" means. Yes, that's one problem. 'by X' can mean different things in different contexts. If you think about how "by X" is used in other contexts (e.g. "by the time Monday rolled around he was long gone", Of course the more that is added to 'by X', the more clear the meaning of 'by X' becomes. "by the time WWII began in 1939, Hitler's militancy had been a growing concern in Europe for ten years", etc.) you can see that it's almost always taken to mean Again, the more words added the clearer the meaning is. "at the instant the time was X, Y had already occurred". Again, this meaning of 'by' is 'before'. So one could say that, at least semantically, 'before' would be a better choice than 'by'.

Let's go back to sentence in the the OP. There we are disagreeing on what "By 1960" means. And since you defined it as meaning 'before 1960', "before" would be a better choice for that intended meaning.

An interesting question is whether the specifics of the original sentence make your interpretation of "By 1960" (= before 1960) or my interpretation (= in 1960) more likely to be correct. And I'm not saying that I can answer that question

"By 1960, the world's population reached three billion."

Can we know or assume that at some time in 1959 the population had already reached 3 billion? If we can know that, it is better to say 'In 1959 the ....reached three billion.'

I still think it's more reasonable to interpret "By 1960" as meaning 'in 1960 in the sentence in question.

Perhaps there is no resolution to this difference of opinion. Perhaps the meaning "By X" is equivocal in some cases.

c45

CSnyder · Answer

I understand what you're saying but your objection that if I were correct "by" should be replaced with "before" applies equally well to your interpretation where "by" should be replaced with "in" or "during".

Canadian45 · Answer

CSnyderI understand what you're saying but your objection that if I were correct "by" should be replaced with "before" applies equally well to your interpretation where "by" should be replaced with "in" or "during".

That's true, and it again speaks to the possibility of 'by X' being subject to different interpretations in some instances.

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