If you'll be

Question

Hi guys,I hadn't heard that there was a problem using future "will" in an "if" clause.  What are the parameters on this?  Are these all forbidden?We need a chaperone for tomorrow.  Please let me know if you'll be available.He says if the bridge is closed he'll be late getting here.If you think you'll be late, give me a call.Many thanks,  - A.Edit.  Woops, I see the middle one doesn't fit.

CalifJim · Accepted Answer

AvangiI hadn't heard that there was a problem using future "will" in an "if" clause.

Well, now you have!

If ... will ... is used only in limited contexts. It is never used in the "numbered conditionals", by which I mean cases which have hypotheses and conclusions based on them.

If you look up into a cloudless sky at night, you will see the stars. (Not *If you will look ...)
If you cool water sufficiently, it will turn to ice. (Not *If you will cool ...)

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If ... will ... is the wrong analysis for a case where will is in a clause subordinate to the if clause.

If you think (that) you will be late, give me a call. (Not *If you will think ...)
If you are sure that John will like it, I'll buy him this T-shirt. (Not *If you will be sure ...)
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If ... will ... can be used in an embedded (indirect, yes-no) question (as after "I don't know"). Here if and whether are usually interchangeable.

Let me know if you'll be available. (Will you be ... ?)

Everyone is wondering if he'll arrive on time. (Will he arrive ... ?)

I doubt if he'll know how to solve that problem. (Will he know ... ?)
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And if ... will ... can be used in "bargaining", typically with two wills. The concepts of willingness and consent are brought in to explain these.

If you'll buy the pizza, I'll buy the beer. (If you consent to ..., If you are willing to ...)
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And, as HS and I have been exploring recently, if ... will ... can be used to show that a benefit accrues to someone. Or perhaps the idea of "desired effect" could be used to describe these.

I'll be glad to type this for you if it will help you finish sooner.
Do it exactly as she said if that will shut her up.
If it won't be too difficult, I'll give it a try.

I'm not sure an entire taxonomy of "will"s has ever been compiled, so there may be subsets of the classes I've mentioned above, or one or the other I've mentioned may be a subset of another, or there may be other classes yet to be discovered. The boundary between some of these last mentioned and those that are "true hypotheticals" is not exactly firmly fixed -- at least not yet -- in my opinion.

CJ

Avangi · Answer

Thank you very kindly.  This will keep me out of trouble for a little while, I hope.<img class='emoticon' style='Width:19px;Height:19px;' data-delaysrc='https://uat-englishforward-forums-backend.s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/Emoticons/77.gif' src='https://uat-englishforward-forums-backend.s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/Emoticons/77.gif' alt='Emotion: happy'/>

CalifJim · Answer

MrPernickety · Answer

CalifJimAnd, as HS and I have been exploring recently, if ... will ... can be used to show that a benefit accrues to someone. Or perhaps the idea of "desired effect" could be used to describe these.

I'll be glad to type this for you if it will help you finish sooner.

Do it exactly as she said if that will shut her up.

If it won't be too difficult, I'll give it a try.

Hi, Jim

That's a very interesting discourse you've presented !

Do you think your last rule is germane to this example? (can I say such a sentence ?):

"I'll get to the meeting at quarter of noon on the dot if my car will start without a hitch"

Thanks !

CalifJim · Answer

MrPernicketyDo you think your last rule is germane to this example?

Yes and no. I'd put it in the category of "willingness or consent". "desired effect" also works. The categories are by no means mutually exclusive. It's a somewhat unusual example because it hints at the inanimate car as having the power to consent to start. The impression I get as a native speaker is this:

I'll get to the meeting ... if my stubborn car decides to cooperate and start properly today for a change!

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Of course you can say your sentence. I think I like it!

CJ

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