"if it is necessary to do so, kill her"

Question

Hello, Falks,Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!I want to ask if we can use "to do so" to refer something coming afterwards. "Annihilate the revolutionists, if it is necessary to do so!"This sounds correct because "to do so" is referring to something preceeding, but if we switch the above back and forth:1. "If it is necessary to do so, annihilate them!"Then, can we still use "to do so" here?Or we must change it as follows?2. "If it is necessary to annihilate the revolutionists, do so!"Are both #1 and #2 absolutely allright?1. When it becomes necssary to do so to take down the government, we will join you.Is the above correct to have "to do so" refer to " to take down" following it?

Avangi · Accepted Answer

In my opinion, these are all correct and natural. "To do so" has no tense.
I'd say it's only the conditional quality that's essential.

Ferdis · Answer

zazzexHello, Falks,
1. When it becomes necssary to do so to take down the government, we will join you.

Is the above correct to have "to do so" refer to " to take down" following it?

This one is strange, though. Leave out the 'to do so' here, or alternatively put a comma after 'to do so' (perhaps even dashes).

By the way, the comma already indicates that there is a reversal of standard word order. The base sentence is "Annihilate them if it is necessary to do so!". Now, because you want to emphasize the 'to do so' part, you place it first in the sentence and add a comma: "If it is necessary to do so, annihilate them!". That's perfectly fine, in my opinion.

Avangi · Answer

I read "to take down the government" as parenthetical, or an appositive, or something like that.

It's an alternative to "to do so."

If it were presented in prior context, it would not be necessary to restate it.

The sentence is grammatical without it.

My feeling is that it would most certainly have been stated in prior context, but is repeated for emphasis, or clarity.

Ferdis · Answer

AvangiI read "to take down the government" as parenthetical, or an appositive, or something like that.

It's an alternative to "to do so."

Yes, that's why I suggested a comma or dash to make it so. Appositives require commas. (it's an infinitive appositive phrase modifying 'so', as far as I know...)

Avangi · Answer

Sorry about that, ferdis. I guess I need new glasses!

The break in the underscore made it seem like there was a comma there. (That's as good an excuse as any!)

Zazzx's numbering system is hard to follow. I thought all of your reply pertained to #1.

Anyway, I think if you were going to omit one of the phrases, the appositive should be the one to go.

We often have a problem when a poster takes a sentence out of context to ask a question about it. For some reason, we feel we have to make a fully independent stand-alone sentence out of it. It drives me nuts.

Best rgdz, - A.

Anonymous · Answer

Thanks, ferdis

In this long sentence below,

StartFragment>

In the light of these provisos we might be sanguine about clause 14(5) of Bill, which empowers the Secretary of State, where it appears to be `necessary or desirable to do so in the light of development in science or medicine` to extend the statutory definitions of embryos, eggs, sperm, or gametes in order to include `things......which would not otherwise fall within the [relevant] definition.`

(1) Where would you like to insert a comma, if needed, to have a natural, the most natural maybe, reading in this given context? (2) Do you think the underlined do so will have different referents (empower~ or extend ~) depending on the presence of a comma where you think it should be for the most natural reading? (3) If the comma should be put before the 'to extend ~`, will the where clause be an inserted clause between the Secretary (Object) and to extend ~ (Object Complement); This means that the latter comma of this inserted clause will have two roles: appositive comma and inserted clause comma.

Thank you for your kind answer in advance.

James

CalifJim · Answer

so is pronomial. Its meaning is close to "that" or "the mentioned action".

I asked if he could lend me $5. He said he could do [so / that]. (do the mentioned action)

The usual position of any pronoun is after the antecedent, that is, after the word or idea it refers to.

I spoke with Jerry. JoAnn spoke with him too.

But that doesn't mean you can't construct a sentence with the pronoun first and the antecedent later.

When JoAnn last spoke to him, Jerry seemed willing to help on the project.

Pronomial so is not different in this respect. You can place it in the usual position, after the antecedent, or you can place it before.

-- I'd like to try this wine.
-- Please do so.

or

Whenever he had to do so, he stepped aside to let people pass.

It is much less usual to place the pronoun before its antecedent, but there is no rule against it.

CJ

Anonymous · Answer

Hello, CalifJim:-

Would you kindly answer the question by anonimous, right above? By the way is this homepage server located in Calif.? Just wondering about the time difference. Thank you, CalifJim. Bye-

Ferdis · Answer

(1) Where would you like to insert a comma, if needed, to have a natural, the most natural maybe, reading in this given context?

I'd probably re-write that sentence like this:

In ~~the~~ light of these provisos, we might be sanguine about clause 14(5) of Bill [which Bill?], which empowers the Secretary of State to extend the statutory definitions of embryos, eggs, sperm or gametes ~~in order~~ to include "things..~~which~~ that would not otherwise fall within the [relevant] definition" where it appears to be "necessary or desirable to do so in the light of development in science or medicine".

If you want to emphasize the "where necessary or desirable to do so"-part:

In light of these provisos, we might be sanguine about clause 14(5) of Bill [which Bill?], which empowers the Secretary of State to extend, where it appears to be "necessary or desirable to do so in the light of development in science or medicine", the statutory definitions of embryos, eggs, sperm or gametes to include "things..that would not otherwise fall within the [relevant] definition".

(2) Do you think the underlined do so will have different referents (empower~ or extend ~) depending on the presence of a comma where you think it should be for the most natural reading?

No, the antecedent of 'so' is the whole 'to extend' phrase. That's why I reversed the order and placed 'to extend' first. Reversing the order here is too confusing, in my opinion.

(3) If the comma should be put before the 'to extend ~`, will the where clause be an inserted clause between the Secretary (Object) and to extend ~ (Object Complement); This means that the latter comma of this inserted clause will have two roles: appositive comma and inserted clause comma.

I'm not sure what an inserted clause is. Commas having two different roles is generally no problem. By the way, 'where' is a subordinating conjunction, so it works the same way as, say, 'because'. This results in adverbial clauses in this case. Adverbial clauses at the end of a sentence do not take commas when they are restrictive, which I believe to be the case here.

Because he was late, he missed the meeting. [comma, reversed order]

He missed the meeting because he was late. [no comma, normal order]

Where it appeared to be necessary to do so, they corrected the document. [comma, reversed order]

They corrected the document where it appeared necessary to do so. [no comma, normal order]

Hope this helped. There are always other ways to write sentences, so follow your own sense of style as well.

Anonymous · Answer

Thank you very much, ferdis, coool!

"if it is necessary to do so, kill her"

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