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Usenet Posted 20 years ago
Usage
If I were him ...
'If I were HIM, I would never tell my wife.'
Funny, this.
In this conditional clause, I suppose, 'him' is the nominal part of the predicate, isn't it? Then why is it not a nominative?
Or is it bad English and should we say 'If I were he ...', anyway?
A contra-indication thereof would be that in my own language, Dutch, a nominative is not possible. The object form of the personal pronoun is absolutely required. So it can't be a nominative. But still a nominal predicate?
Anything to do with the irrealis?
Any grammar freaks who know?
Joppe
Funny, this.
In this conditional clause, I suppose, 'him' is the nominal part of the predicate, isn't it? Then why is it not a nominative?
Or is it bad English and should we say 'If I were he ...', anyway?
A contra-indication thereof would be that in my own language, Dutch, a nominative is not possible. The object form of the personal pronoun is absolutely required. So it can't be a nominative. But still a nominal predicate?
Anything to do with the irrealis?
Any grammar freaks who know?
Joppe
Top answer
' Funny, this. In this conditional clause, I suppose, 'him' is the nominal part of the predicate, isn't it? [/nq] "Him" is in the place of a predicate nominative.
- ' Funny, this.
- In this conditional clause, I suppose, 'him' is the nominal part of the predicate, isn't it?
- [/nq] "Him" is in the place of a predicate nominative.
- It's form is accusative (objective).
- That's what you mean, right.
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47 Answers
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[nq:1]'If I were HIM, I would never tell my wife.' Funny, this. In this conditional clause, I suppose, 'him' is the nominal part of the predicate, isn't it? Then why is it not a nominative?[/nq]
"Him" is in the place of a predicate nominative. It's form is accusative (objective). That's what you mean, right.
[nq:1]Or is it bad English and should we say 'If I were he ...', anyway?[/nq]
"Him" is in the place of a predicate nominative. It's form is accusative (objective). That's what you mean, right.
[nq:1]Or is it bad English and should we say 'If I were he ...', anyway?[/nq]
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[nq:1]So, okay, traditional English grammar calls for "If I were he," but contemporary English idiom allows either that or "If I were him." Check back in about ten years and see what we're doing then.[/nq]
I find the subjunctive incongruous for the informal register implied by the use of "him" as a complement; I'd expect to hear either "If I were he ..." or "If I was him ...". Expressions like
I find the subjunctive incongruous for the informal register implied by the use of "him" as a complement; I'd expect to hear either "If I were he ..." or "If I was him ...". Expressions like
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[nq:1]in formal written English most people would rather rewrite than put "It's I" on paper.[/nq]
If I feel I must contract "It is I", I'll contract it "'Tis I". I find it easier to say, and if I'm going to sound a little stilted I may as well sound very stilted.
If I feel I must contract "It is I", I'll contract it "'Tis I". I find it easier to say, and if I'm going to sound a little stilted I may as well sound very stilted.
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[nq:1][/nq]
[nq:2]So, okay, traditional English grammar calls for "If I were ... in about ten years and see what we're doing then.[/nq]
[nq:1]I find the subjunctive incongruous for the informal register implied by the use of "him" as a complement; I'd expect ... if my ear is typical, this may be an example of a form persisting only in 'educated' and literary registers.[/nq]
I would nev
[nq:2]So, okay, traditional English grammar calls for "If I were ... in about ten years and see what we're doing then.[/nq]
[nq:1]I find the subjunctive incongruous for the informal register implied by the use of "him" as a complement; I'd expect ... if my ear is typical, this may be an example of a form persisting only in 'educated' and literary registers.[/nq]
I would nev
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[nq:1]'If I were HIM, I would never tell my wife.' Funny, this. In this conditional clause, I suppose, 'him' is ... is absolutely required. So it can't be a nominative. But still a nominal predicate? Anything to do with the irrealis?[/nq]
Nothing to do with the irrealis, no.
[nq:1]Any grammar freaks who know? Joppe[/nq]
I have seen only one discussion in a major grammar about why the a
Nothing to do with the irrealis, no.
[nq:1]Any grammar freaks who know? Joppe[/nq]
I have seen only one discussion in a major grammar about why the a
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[nq:2] I find the subjunctive incongruous for the informal register ... of a form persisting only in 'educated' and literary registers.[/nq]
[nq:1]I would never say "I am he," so I would certainly not say "If I were he." But I would always use the subjunctive in such a case. As a result, the only way I would say it is as presented: "If I were him."[/nq]
I agree, from a BritPOV.
[nq:1]I would never say "I am he," so I would certainly not say "If I were he." But I would always use the subjunctive in such a case. As a result, the only way I would say it is as presented: "If I were him."[/nq]
I agree, from a BritPOV.
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[nq:1]Consider "What would you do if you were me?". Would anyone find "I" acceptable in place of "me"? If so would it be classified as grammatically correct, hypercorrection, idiomatic, or something else?[/nq]
The form with "I" is, I believe, grammatically correct, but so unidiomatic that it's almost a hypercorrection. (I reserve "hypercorrection" for something that turns out to be grammatical
The form with "I" is, I believe, grammatically correct, but so unidiomatic that it's almost a hypercorrection. (I reserve "hypercorrection" for something that turns out to be grammatical
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[nq:1]'If I were HIM, I would never tell my wife.'[/nq]
Reading these posts, i find it interesting that all the combinations of "him" and/or "he" with "were" and/or "was" are either preferred or accepted by one or another, or in certain contexts. Usage has become so diverse that it is about hopeless to find a standard, while we can observe the habits of some speech groups.
Growing up, our
Reading these posts, i find it interesting that all the combinations of "him" and/or "he" with "were" and/or "was" are either preferred or accepted by one or another, or in certain contexts. Usage has become so diverse that it is about hopeless to find a standard, while we can observe the habits of some speech groups.
Growing up, our
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[nq:2]'If I were HIM, I would never tell my wife.'[/nq]
snip explanation
[nq:1]I still speak that way most of the time, but in recent years i have sometimes found myself going with ... i would never tell my wife". It just wouldn't be me. None of it, not even with "were" and/or "he".[/nq]
This isn't a flame I just find it exceedingly curious that whilst you feel this way abou
[nq:1]I still speak that way most of the time, but in recent years i have sometimes found myself going with ... i would never tell my wife". It just wouldn't be me. None of it, not even with "were" and/or "he".[/nq]
This isn't a flame I just find it exceedingly curious that whilst you feel this way abou
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[nq:2]i would not go so far as to say: "If ... me. None of it, not even with "were" and/or "he".[/nq]
[nq:1]This isn't a flame I just find it exceedingly curious that whilst you feel this way about the ingrained ... yoked to a studiously complete rejection of another convention of formal English (which is entirely intact in standard use).[/nq]
You are the first person to remark on this. I
[nq:1]This isn't a flame I just find it exceedingly curious that whilst you feel this way about the ingrained ... yoked to a studiously complete rejection of another convention of formal English (which is entirely intact in standard use).[/nq]
You are the first person to remark on this. I
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