I would like to thank...However, I can't...

Question

In one of the articles presented somewhere in this forum I've found this:

"I would like to thank Jim Copeland for valuable comments and suggestions on an earlier draft of this paper. However, I can't, because he made no valuable comments or suggestions on an earlier draft of this paper. As a matter of fact, there was no earlier draft. "

How would you tell the same to be with less surprise going from one sentence to another? I have a few more questions but let us start with this one.

Nona the brit · Accepted Answer

This sounds like a jokey introduction to a presentation to me. I don't think you are meant to take it seriously. The surprise/contradictary element is the basis of the whole joke so it wouldn't work if it were re-phrased without that.

To take it slightly more 'straight' you could say: I can't thank Jim Copland for his help on the earlier draft because I didn't actually do one.

Aperisic · Answer

Nona The Brit
This sounds like a jokey introduction to a presentation to me. I don't think you are meant to take it seriously. The surprise/contradictary element is the basis of the whole joke so it wouldn't work if it were re-phrased without that.

To take it slightly more 'straight' you could say: I can't thank Jim Copland for his help on the earlier draft because I didn't actually do one.

I agree, but... What is interesting is that I found it in a very serious Web site. What I would like to try is to change every sentence only up to the degree to avoid a joke or surprise. I want a joke not to work. The structure of each of the sentence should remain the same.

For example: "I would have liked to thank...". Please try it yourself, it is not that simple. There are many negations even for English that recognizes no double negation

)

After you try, think (aloud) about this

1. Why you think there is "an earlier draft of this paper" instead of "the earlier draft of this paper"?

2. Why there is twice the same phrase "an earlier draft of this paper"?

3. Why in the third sentence there is only "earlier draft" no "an" and no "of this paper"?

4. Jim Copeland is a true person. Do you think the author and Jim are friends or it is a dose of irony here?

5. "he made no valuable comments or suggestions" suggests that there were still some kind of suggestions given by Jim Copeland. What is the purpose of "valuable"?

6. Do you think that this addition has the same spirit as the rest of the "thank note"?

"I would like to thank Jim Copeland for valuable comments and suggestions on an earlier draft of this paper. However, I can't, because he made no valuable comments or suggestions on an earlier draft of this paper. As a matter of fact, there was no earlier draft, and I am not quite sure that I know who Jim Copeland really is."

Thanks. Aleksandar. Stop.

Nona the brit · Answer

1. Why you think there is "an earlier draft of this paper" instead of "the earlier draft of this paper"? Because there was more than one earlier draft? People often do two or three (or more) drafts until they are satisfied.

2. Why there is twice the same phrase "an earlier draft of this paper"? Repetition adds to the comic effect.

3. Why in the third sentence there is only "earlier draft" no "an" and no "of this paper"? Grammatically it needs no 'an' and perhaps they thought that 'of this paper' was just too much repetition. If you want to use 'an' you could re-phrase it as 'there wasn't an earlier draft'.

4. Jim Copeland is a true person. Do you think the author and Jim are friends or it is a dose of irony here? We can't tell that.

5. "he made no valuable comments or suggestions" suggests that there were still some kind of suggestions given by Jim Copeland. What is the purpose of "valuable"? Again, we can't know that.

6. Do you think that this addition has the same spirit as the rest of the "thank note"? Yes I suppose so.

"I would like to thank Jim Copeland for valuable comments and suggestions on an earlier draft of this paper. However, I can't, because he made no valuable comments or suggestions on an earlier draft of this paper. As a matter of fact, there was no earlier draft, and I am not quite sure that I know who Jim Copeland really is."

Another interpretation (seems unlikely though) of the situation is that the writer is annoyed with a 'Jim Copeland' trying to take credit for the writer's work!

[edited by: Aperisic at 12:39 PM (GMT 1) on Thu, Jul 27 2006]

Aperisic · Answer

I claim no answer to any of the questions. I am just thinking aloud.

Nona The Brit
1. Why you think there is "an earlier draft of this paper" instead of "the earlier draft of this paper"?

Because there was more than one earlier draft? People often do two or three (or more) drafts until they are satisfied.

I agree. It is also possible that "a", "an" is there to suggest non-existence of the paper.

Nona The Brit
2. Why there is twice the same phrase "an earlier draft of this paper"? Repetition adds to the comic effect.

Certainly. Grammatically, it is possible to use "the earlier draft" because at this moment a specific draft was already mentioned, we know which one. We have however only "a","an", which suggests as well that a draft might not exists. "A", "an" is used then only to specify the type of the object in the discussion not its existence.

Nona The Brit
3. Why in the third sentence there is only "earlier draft" no "an" and no "of this paper"? Grammatically it needs no 'an' and perhaps they thought that 'of this paper' was just too much repetition. If you want to use 'an' you could re-phrase it as 'there wasn't an earlier draft'.

I think as well that if you add "earlier draft of this paper", the author would leave the final reader's focus on "the paper", not on "the (a) draft". And he talks about a draft so not bad to leave focus on it at the end.

Nona The Brit
4. Jim Copeland is a true person. Do you think the author and Jim are friends or it is a dose of irony here? We can't tell that.

I think it is a joke not related directly to Jim. I agree that we can't decide that.

Nona The Brit
5. "he made no valuable comments or suggestions" suggests that there were still some kind of suggestions given by Jim Copeland. What is the purpose of "valuable"? Again, we can't know that.

I think that "valuable" is an expression that sounds formal. It sounds like one of those phrases that are used, and the author is saying that with a touch of boredom. However, "he made no valuable comments and suggestions" is funny on its own, and it could lead to irony or even an insult if we have no surprising ending.

"As a matter of fact" is funny as well, it sounds like "Oh, I've just remembered..."
Nona The Brit
6. Do you think that this addition has the same spirit as the rest of the "thank note"? Yes I suppose so.

"I would like to thank Jim Copeland for valuable comments and suggestions on an earlier draft of this paper. However, I can't, because he made no valuable comments or suggestions on an earlier draft of this paper. As a matter of fact, there was no earlier draft, and I am not quite sure that I know who Jim Copeland really is."

I think that would be the ultimate end of his attempt. The next step is to delete everything )
Nona The Brit
Another interpretation (seems unlikely though) of the situation is that the writer is annoyed with a 'Jim Copeland' trying to

take credit for the writer's work!

I think that it is possible as well that to Jim as an editor everybody thanks for this, for that, in the magazine. It sounds like "I would like to thank Jim..." is a bird-song in the company (as well as famous "earlier draft"). So the author used that and made a joke. I feel precisely that amount of "inappropriateness". If I were that editor I would laugh a lot. But, any other plausible explanation is likely possible. (By the way, is "likely possible" a pleonasm? And what about "plausable...likely possible"?)

Three-four questions more

"I would like to thank Jim Copeland for valuable comments and suggestions on an earlier draft of this paper. However, I can't, because he made no valuable comments or suggestions on an earlier draft of this paper."

7. Why there is 'and' in "valuable comments and suggestions" and 'or' in "valuable comments or suggestions"?

8. What would be the meaning if you use other combinations "and-and" "or-or" "or-and"?

9. Would you use "neither nor" - neither valuable comments nor suggestions? Why possibly the author didn't?

I would like to thank...However, I can't...

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