I or me

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what is the correct way of saying and why?If you were I/me you would do ..If you had been I/me you would have done ..Thanks.

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[nq:1]what is the correct way of saying and why? If you were I/me you would do .. If you had ... but it sounds remarkably stilted and the historical claim that it is grammatically "correct" is dubious, to say the least.[/nq]
Regards, Einde O'Callaghan

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[nq:1]In modern everyday English the form is "If you were me ..." and "If you had been me ..." - ... remarkably stilted and the historical claim that it is grammatically "correct" is dubious, to say the least. Regards, Einde O'Callaghan[/nq]
If I remember correctly, I think the German translation is:

"Als Sie wäre ich, ..."

I think that the German is more logical; why should we using the dative case in our example? Sometimes the dative is used to describe the benefactor of an action, for example, "I gave him a fiver", or laid out flat "I gave a fiver to him". This doesn't seem to be the case with our original hypothetical statement.

However, normal usage says we should use "me" in place of "I". "Hey", I tell my students, I didn't invent this language!

Other languages, like Spanish use the nominative case where English uses the dative. For example,

"Who is it?" "It's me" "¿Quien está?" "Soy Yo" or literally "Am I"

If I ramble on for a bit more... Modern linguists generally agree that English only has the remnants of the germanic case system, as a consequence of the Great Vowel shift that took place in England several centuries ago. If we accept that, then we don't have to pay much attention when people suggest that English has a case system.

Iain

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]I think that the German is more logical; why should we using the dative case in our example?[/nq]
Strictly speaking English has no dative, only an accusative form that is only noticeable with certain pronouns.

I suspect tha what was happening is that ther was a grammatical transition underway with pronouns simlar to that the occurred earlier with nouns wehn the different case formks were lost. However, with the development of literacy the language became relatively stable, at least in the standard form, retaining the the accusative form of the pronoun.

This would fit with the theory you refer to.

Regards, Einde O'Callaghan

Usenet · Answer

[nq:2]I think that the German is more logical; why should we using the dative case in our example?[/nq]
[nq:1]Strictly speaking English has no dative, only an accusative form that is only noticeable with certain pronouns. I suspect tha ... literacy the language became relatively stable, at least in the standard form, retaining the the accusative form of the pronoun.[/nq]
I've provided a link to bartleby which is an excellent grammar reference, albeit American - so you have to read between the lines when considering British English Grammar.

The reference says the English still retains a dative case, but it only applies to the pronouns, moreover, the pronouns use an all purpose dative / accusitive case. English uses prepositions to provide a dative function, which more accurately descibes the examples I provided in an earlier post.

http://www.bartleby.com/68/22/1622.html

And I'll just finish with: I read recently that the accusitive case was so named due to a mistranslation from latin. It should have be called the objective case - makes more sense really.

Iain

I or me

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