I need reference for archaic usage?

Question

I am reading some history and some novels placed in the 12th-15th century. The locations vary from England to Bohemia. I need a source or method for determining the meaning of some archaic usage's. I also need in some case to determine the precise meaning of some words as they were used then. Leaving aside the issue of translation where other languages are concerned, is there a reference I can use for this.
Some examples:
How were the words "beautiful" and "handsome" used in that period? In some books "beauty" is used in reference to men much more than women while women are more often described as handsome than men. This seems to be contrary to current usage.
What precisely is a "schrippe" (some sort of container or bag)? Is it a big bag or a small bag? Made from cloth or leather and does it have a flap or a drawstring closure?
What did the word "manor" mean in the sentence, "He is the Lord of two Manors." I understand it is some sort of real estate, which is apparently more than a house less than a castle or village.

I need sources that I can use as new terms come up. Not just answers to these questions.

Usenet · Accepted Answer

[nq:1]I am reading some history and some novels placed in the 12th-15th century. The locations vary from England to Bohemia. ... Leaving aside the issue of translation where other languages are concerned, is there a reference I can use for this.[/nq]
The Oxford English Dictionary (as other responders have probably told you). The various "shorter" and "concise" versions leave out a lot of archaic words and historical information, so you might need the full version, which is quite expensive. Your local library might have it, and if you live in certain communities or study or work at certain colleges, you can get it on line (that's been discussed here).
[nq:1]Some examples:... What precisely is a "schrippe" (some sort of container or bag)? Is it a big bag or a small bag? Made from cloth or leather and does it have a flap or a drawstring closure?[/nq]
Try looking that up under "scrip", though you may not find the kind of precision you're looking for. According to MWCD10 on line, it was small.
...
[nq:1]I need sources that I can use as new terms come up. Not just answers to these questions.[/nq]
A refreshing approach around here.

Jerry Friedman

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]I am reading some history and some novels placed in the 12th-15th century. The locations vary from England to Bohemia. I need a source or method for determining the meaning of some archaic usage's.[/nq]
There are few good sources for usages in the 12th-15th centuries. The OED tries, but ...
[nq:1]Some examples: How were the words "beautiful" and "handsome" used in that period?[/nq]
"Beautiful" might not have been used at all. MWCD11 dates it to the 15C, your terminus ante quem, but OED1's first reference is from 1526, and SOED1-3 all date it to 1526, but SOED4-5 to LME=1350-1469. The adjectival use from 1526-1586 seems "Excelling in grace of form, charm of colouring, and other qualities which delight the eye, and call forth admiration."

"Handsome" occurs in OED1 references from 1435 on, but with meanings that don't seem appropriate for the uses you have found:
1435 "Easy to manipulate, or to wield, deal with, or use in any way./Obs/"
(SOED3 dates this as ME-1598, SOED5 as LME-L16)

1530 "Handy, ready at hand, convenient, suitable. /Obs./ or /Dial./"
1563 "Of action, speech, etc.: Appropriate, apt, dextrous, clever, happy;in reference to language, sometimes implying gracefulness of style. /? Obs./ exc. /U.S./

1547 "Of an agent: Apt, skilled, clever. /Obs./ esc. /U.S./, or asassociated with other senses.
By 1590 we find it in the sense
"Having a fine form or figure (usually in conjunction with full size or stateliness); 'beautiful with dignity' (J.), 'fine', The prevailing current sense." The 1590 reference is to Spencer.
[nq:1]In some books "beauty" is used in reference to men much more than women while women are more often described as handsome than men. This seems to be contrary to current usage.[/nq]
And anachronistic for the period that you are concerned with. You need to determine the meaning that the person setting the English imagined, a perhaps impossible task. It should be clear to you that you are not dealing with words as they were used in the 12-15C, but something else entirely.
[nq:1]What precisely is a "schrippe" (some sort of container or bag)? Is it a big bag or a small bag? Made from cloth or leather and does it have a flap or a drawstring closure?[/nq]
OED1: "Schrippe, Schrole, obs. ff. Scrip /sb.3/, Scroll /sb./" Here's COD10's entry for scrip:
scrip2
· n. historical a small bag or pouch, as carried by a pilgrim, shepherd, or beggar.
? ORIGIN ME: prob. a shortening of OFr. escrepe ?purse?.
[nq:1]What did the word "manor" mean in the sentence, "He is the Lord of two Manors." I understand it is some sort of real estate, which is apparently more than a house less than a castle or village.[/nq]
OED1
1290- "A mansion, habitation; a country residence; the principal home of an estate, 'capital messuage.'
1292- "The mansion of a lord with the land belonging to it; hence, a landed estate. /Obs./"
[nq:1]I need sources that I can use as new terms come up. Not just answers to these questions.[/nq]
Get access to an OED, or at least to an SOED. For terms in disuse from 1700-, the SOED should be the 3rd edition (1944, rev. 1973) or earlier. The NSOED (SOED4) and SOED5 aim for coverage of terms in use after 1700.

Martin Ambuhl

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[nq:2]In some books "beauty" is used in reference to men ... than men. This seems to be contrary to current usage.[/nq]
[nq:1]And anachronistic for the period that you are concerned with. You need to determine the meaning that the person setting ... to you that you are not dealing with words as they were used in the 12-15C, but something else entirely.[/nq]
What you have said seems quite probable. That particular example comes from several of Peter Ellis' Brother Cadfile novels. Although they are placed in the 12th century they are written in the latter 20th century.

Since I wrote my original post I have discovered the following resources. I post them here for others who may have similar interests.: The Britannia Lexicon of Medieval History
Castle Terminology Mayhew and Skeat Concise Dictionary of Middle English Glossary of Medieval Towns A List of Medieval Legal Terms A Wordlist of English Feudal Terms

There are many other specialized dictionaries linked at http://www.yourdictionary.com/specialty.html.

~~
"Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel." Samuel Johnson "Patriotism is your conviction that this country is superior to all other countries because you were born in it."
George Bernard Shaw
Marc

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1] That particular example comes from several of Peter Ellis' Brother Cadfile novels. Although they areplaced in the 12th century they are written in the latter 20th century.[/nq]
The author is Ellis Peters, a woman. Her real name was Edith Mary Pargeter (1913-95).
Matti

Usenet · Answer

[nq:2]And anachronistic for the period that you are concerned with. ... they were used in the 12-15C, but something else entirely.[/nq]
[nq:1]What you have said seems quite probable. That particular example comes from several of Peter Ellis' Brother Cadfile novels. Although they are placed in the 12th century they are written in the latter 20th century.[/nq]
That's Ellis Peters and Cadfael.
m.

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I knew that. I guess I was typing faster than I was thinking.
~~
"Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel." Samuel Johnson "Patriotism is your conviction that this country is superior to all other countries because you were born in it."
George Bernard Shaw
Marc

Usenet · Answer

[nq:2]I am reading some history and some novels placed in ... concerned, is there a reference I can use for this.[/nq]
[nq:1]The Oxford English Dictionary (as other responders have probably told you). The various "shorter" and "concise" versions leave out a ... in certain communities or study or work at certain colleges, you can get it on line (that's been discussed here).[/nq]
The following might not yield as much information as the OED2, but they have the advantage of being readily available on the Internet:

(1) *The Century Dictionary,* a very large American dictionary from 1895, at www.century-dictionary.com , which includes both archaic words and historical information. After doing a search, pick the JPEG option to see the results, a facsimile from a page of the original work If you find this dictionary worth consulting on a regular basis, download the DjVu plug-in: It's well worth it.
(2) The 1913 Webster's dictionary, revised and unabridged, at

http://humanities.uchicago.edu/forms unrest/webster.form.html

It contains 109,562 entries.
(3) The dictionary at Infoplease.com ,
http://www.infoplease.com/dictionary.html , which is, it seems, *The Random House Webster's Unabridged Dictionary,* 2nd ed., without etymologies and usage notes.
[nq:2]Some examples:[/nq]
Raymond S. Wise
Minneapolis, Minnesota USA
E-mail: mplsray @ yahoo . com

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(Incidentally, she also wrote a series of detective novels set in the 1960s and 70s.)

wrmst rgrds
Robin Bignall
Quiet part of Hertfordshire
England

I need reference for archaic usage?

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