I knew that Columbus had discovered America in 1492.

Question

I'd be happy if someone would answer my question. Thanks in advance.

Are the following 2 sentences correct?

A: I knew that Columbus discovered America in 1492.

B: I knew that Columbus had discovered America in 1492.

Is B correct if you are not so strongly conscious of Columbus's discovery as a historic fact?

Ruslana · Accepted Answer

I may be wrong, but only the second sentence sounds okay to me.

Clive · Answer

Hi,

I'd be happy if someone would answer my question. Thanks in advance.

Are the following 2 sentences correct?

A: I knew that Columbus discovered America in 1492. This is OK. The sequence of events is clear.

B: I knew that Columbus had discovered America in 1492. This is OK, but the Past perfect stresses the sequence of events.

Is B correct if you are not so strongly conscious of Columbus's discovery as a historic fact? Yes.

Best wishes, Clive

Anonymous · Answer

Hi, Clive.

Would this set a proper context for the use of the present perfect tense?

(We, as a group, are not sure of the fact who discovered America and currently having a discussion on who discovered America and that fact will be told to the teacher later on.)

Sam: I know for sure that Columbus has discovered America.

Would the use of the past perfect tense here be justified in that the topic of the discussion (ie, who discovered America) is still a topic of the discussion?

Would the fact that Columbus has passed away play an important part in this case and would that negate the use of the past perfect tense? Since Columbus no longer lives with us, is it incorrect to use the past perfect tense?

Believer · Answer

CliveHi,

I'd be happy if someone would answer my question. Thanks in advance.

Are the following 2 sentences correct?

A: I knew that Columbus discovered America in 1492. This is OK. The sequence of events is clear.

B: I knew that Columbus had discovered America in 1492. This is OK, but the Past perfect stresses the sequence of events.

Hi, Clive. I was looking at the Collins Cobuild Advanced Learner's Dictionary and in it, the definition of Neolithic is stated like this:

Neolithic is used to describe things relating to the period when people had started farming but still used stone for making weapons and tools.

See, 'had started' is a past perfect tense, and I think 'started' would be OK too, but instead a past perfect tense was used. Where do I have to go to find the answer to "before what?" Is it clear from the context that it is before the period of using stone for making weapons and tools? Do I have to surmise what seems to be a missing time reference? Is this kind of construction done often?

Is B correct if you are not so strongly conscious of Columbus's discovery as a historic fact? Yes.

Best wishes, Clive

Clive · Answer

Hi Anonymous,

Would this set a proper context for the use of the present perfect tense?

(We, as a group, are not sure of the fact who discovered America and currently having a discussion on who discovered America and that fact will be told to the teacher later on.)

Sam: I know for sure that Columbus has discovered America.

Would the use of the past perfect tense here be justified in that the topic of the discussion (ie, who discovered America) is still a topic of the discussion? 'Has discovered' is not Past Perfect, it's Present Perfect'.

Would the fact that Columbus has passed away play an important part in this case and would that negate the use of the past perfect tense? Since Columbus no longer lives with us, is it incorrect to use the past perfect tense? The fact that Columbus is dead makes it sound odd to use Present Perfect like this. I t sounds like the speaker does not know that Columbus is dead, or perhaps that the speaker is a Spanish schoolboy in the year 1499.

I'm not sure if that fully answers your question?

Best wishes, Clive

Clive · Answer

Hi Believer,

I'd be happy if someone would answer my question. Thanks in advance.

Are the following 2 sentences correct?

A: I knew that Columbus discovered America in 1492. This is OK. The sequence of events is clear.

B: I knew that Columbus had discovered America in 1492. This is OK, but the Past perfect stresses the sequence of events.

Hi, Clive. I was looking at the Collins Cobuild Advanced Learner's Dictionary and in it, the definition of Neolithic is stated like this:

Neolithic is used to describe things relating to the period when people had started farming but still used stone for making weapons and tools.

See, 'had started' is a past perfect tense, and I think 'started' would be OK too, but instead a past perfect tense was used. Where do I have to go to find the answer to "before what?" Is it clear from the context that it is before the period of using stone for making weapons and tools? Do I have to surmise what seems to be a missing time reference? The sentence makes the time reference or focus the period that is being described. The idea is that people started farming before this period, and still used stone in this period. If you just said 'started', it would suggest that they started farming in this period rather than before this period.

Is this kind of construction done often? It seems a common kind of thing to say, yes.

Best wishes, Clive

Anonymous · Answer

CliveHi Anonymous,

Would this set a proper context for the use of the present perfect tense?

(We, as a group, are not sure of the fact who discovered America and currently having a discussion on who discovered America and that fact will be told to the teacher later on.)

Sam: I know for sure that Columbus has discovered America.

Would the use of the past perfect tense here be justified in that the topic of the discussion (ie, who discovered America) is still a topic of the discussion? 'Has discovered' is not Past Perfect, it's Present Perfect'.

Sorry, I was mistaken. OK, as you said 'has discovered' is present perfect. Does the sentence in present perfect correct? I think we all know that Columbus has passed away long ago. Thank you.

Would the fact that Columbus has passed away play an important part in this case and would that negate the use of the past perfect tense? Since Columbus no longer lives with us, is it incorrect to use the past perfect tense? The fact that Columbus is dead makes it sound odd to use Present Perfect like this. I t sounds like the speaker does not know that Columbus is dead, or perhaps that the speaker is a Spanish schoolboy in the year 1499.

I'm not sure if that fully answers your question?

Best wishes, Clive

Clive · Answer

hi,

Sam: I know for sure that Columbus has discovered America.

Does the sentence in present perfect correct? I think we all know that Columbus has passed away long ago. I thought part of your query might concern an example of someone who doesn't know that, but apparently it doesn't.

As I said in my previous post, the fact that Columbus is dead makes it sound odd to use Present Perfect like this. It sounds like the speaker does not know that Columbus is dead, or perhaps that the speaker is a Spanish schoolboy in the year 1499. In other words, Sam shouldn't use Present Perfect like this. He should just say

Sam: I know for sure that Columbus discovered America.

Best wishes, Clive

I knew that Columbus had discovered America in 1492.

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