I have vs I have been

Question

Hi,

In the following two examples, could someone help me understand the difference.

1) I have played soccer since ten(age of ten).

2) I have been playing soccer since ten.

Well, ... are they very much interchangable? I mean can you say either way?

Here, I am trying to say that you started playing soccer at age of ten, and you are still playing soccer now.

I believe that the latter one(example 2) is fluently used when you are telling such thing.

Thanks in advance.

Paco2004 · Accepted Answer

Some scholars are analyzing the difference between the two tenses the way shown in the charts below.
See [url="http://acl.ldc.upenn.edu/P/P86/P86-1003.pdf"]Harper&Charnick :Time and Tense in English[/url]

SIMPLE PERFECT TENSE He has played

PAST NOW=speaker is speaking FUTURE
|---------------|
has
|---------------|
played
|-------------------------|

The event (the action 'play') time finishes at the beginning of speech]

PROGRESSIVE PERFECT TENSE He has been playing

PAST NOW=speaker is speaking FUTURE
|---------------|
has
|---------------|
been
|-------------------------|
playing
|-------------------------------|

The event (the action 'play') time penetrates into the time after the beginning of speech

paco

Pieanne · Answer

Hello!
To me, 1) means that you started playing soccer at the age of ten, and you still practise the sport at your present age.
2) would mean about the same,I think, but it shows that you are a real fan of that sport and very involved in the matter, maybe it's your job.
Yet,

I have been playing soccer since ten

, means that you started playing soccer at 10 o'clock and that you're still playing at the moment you say that sentence.

Khoff · Answer

I would agree that "I have been playing soccer since ten" sounds like you mean "since ten o'clock." I would say either
I have been playing soccer since I was ten.
I have played soccer since I was ten.
I started playing soccer when I was ten.
To me there is not a big difference between "I have played" and "I have been playing" in these sentences. Maybe the construction using "been playing" sounds more continuous.

Roro · Answer

0 Hello everybody! 02br
00How about the following sentences? 02br
02br
001. We have been married for three years, and very happy we have been, until I had some trouble with some very nasty loansharks about a month ago. 02br
02br
00My question is: can I say this sentence if we have already divorced and we are unhappy now? It seems to me that in some "narrative mode" we could..... But I am not sure, so someone help me, please! 02br
02br
00Or: 02br
02br
002. My husband is sleeping. He has been working for all day long. 02br
02br
00My question is the same: such a sentence is correct? If it is correct, then are there some minor exceptions for the general rule which has quoted paco2004[F], that is, Progressive Perfect tense indicates that the event time penetrates into the time after the beginning of speech ....? Then,it means that, in most cases, there is not a big differences between "I have p.p." and "I have been ~ing", or there is a different shade of meaning, as pointed out knoff[F]. 02br
02br
00One more question: we can say 3 correctly, but how about 4? 02br
02br
003. We have been living in Moskow for three years now. 02br
02br
004. We have been living in Moskow for three years before. 02br
00 (If living-event is expressed as experience, can I use "have been ~ ing" form here?...) [:^)] 02br
02br
02br
00I'm sorry for being fussy about trivial things... But I'm really interested in these questions. So... somebody please help me! 0-

Paco2004 · Answer

0 Hello Roro 02br
02br
00As you know I'm an English learner and I myself am not so confident about between the simple tense and the progressive tense. So please use the following as something like junk food for your thought until native speakers give you more decisive answers. 02br
02br
00Q.1) 02br
00I think you should change the tense of at least the second main clause into the past perfect. The revised version could be either; 02br
00 [1]. "We have been married for three years, and had been very happy until I had some trouble with some very nasty loan-sharks about a month ago." 02br
00This one obligatorily implies you are still married. The duration you are married is 36 months and that you were happy was 35 months. 02br
02br
00 [2]. "We had been married and very happy for three years until I had some trouble with some very nasty loan-sharks about a month ago." 02br
00This one does not state anything about whether you are still married or not. What it is saying is only that you got married 37 months ago and you had enjoyed a happy marriage for 36 months before the troble started. 02br
02br
00Q. 2) I would rather say ; 02br
00 "My husband is sleeping. He has worked for all day long". 02br
00To me, 00 sounds 02br
02br
00Q.3). 02br
00 "We have lived in Moscow for three years now." 02br
00As 00 is a stative verb, you don't need to use a present perfect progressive tense 00 unless you want to emphasize that you will live in Moscow furthermore. 02br
02br
00Q 4). 02br
00 "We lived in Moscow for three years before." 02br
00The word "before" indicates the event finished in the past. So in this case you don't need to use the past perfective sentence. But if you say "We had lived in Moscow for three years 01u00before we moved here02u00", you'd better use 00. 02br
02br
02br
00This is my humble thought. Please wait until Ms Khoff or other native speakers come to give you better ansers. 02br
02br
02br
00paco 02br
0-

Roro · Answer

0Hello paco! Thank you for your careful, kind reply05002br
02br
00Although I've been learning English for many years, my active competence to use it, I should admit, remains on a rather low level (how sad!). But I'm really interested in studying its grammatical system: it's surprisingly logical... but I am still not so sure about the difference between "have p.p." and "have been ~ing".... Is it that logical..? Then where exactly is to draw the line? I am simply wondering. So let me add a little bit what I'm wondering... 02br
02br
00With regard to Q1, dear paco, it seems to me that your explanation is very convincing, and your revised versions are rather calm, cool-headed way of description of what has happened, but... cannot we say " we have been very happy until I had some trouble..." in any case...? Does this sound so strange..? 02br
02br
00With regard to Q2, too, how about the situation in which you scold your child: Be quiet! Daddy is sleeping! Daddy has been working for all day long today! ... ? 02br
02br
00With regard to Q4, I had in mind the so-called Present Perfect of "experience", that is, we can say "we have some good friends in Moskow, because we have lived there before", can't we...? I was not sure if there is a rule something like "in this usage you can not use perfective progressive form". ( but now I think it was rather a silly question..) 02br
02br
00So... maybe my questions are still in disorder05100 Perhaps there is no decisive answer (or we need more context to give some answer...). I would like to know what other native speakers would say. Could somebody do me a favor, please?010id111id10

Paco2004 · Answer

0 Hello Roro 02br
02br
00Excellent writing! I believe you are an advanced English learner, at least a learner much more advanced than me. 02br
02br
00Anyway, what I feel about the problem you have now is that it rather come from your misunderstanding the tense relation in a sentence using the time connective word 00. 02br
02br
00The usage of 00 is like this; 02br
00[1] Event (=main clause : the verbal must have a continuity sense) 00 time-anchor noun phrase. 02br
00 EX-1 (01b00o02b00) We lived in Moscow until the spring of 1997. 02br
00 EX-2 (01b00o02b00) I'll wait you at the station until 6:00 PM. 02br
00 EX-3 (01b00o02b00) He didn't finish the work until 6:00 AM. 02br
00 EX-4 (01b00x02b00) He finished the work until 6:00 AM. 02br
00Please note that 00 has not a continuity sense but 00 has a continuity sense. 02br
02br
00Instead of nouns phrases, you can use a subordinate clause as the time anchor. 02br
00[2] Main Event 00 Sub Event 02br
00 EX-5 (01b00o02b00) We had lived in Moscow until we moved to St. Petersburg. 02br
00Please note 00 happened first and then 00 happened. This is why not 00 but 00 (a form for one-step backshifted than 00 in time sequence) is used here. 02br
00EX-5 is the most correct as a formal English expression but native speakers often use 00 instead of 00 in their daily conversation. That is; 02br
00 EX-5' (01b00o?02b00) We lived in Moscow until we moved to St. Petersburg. 02br
00is acceptable as a colloquial expression. This is because one can easily understand Main Event should happen before Sub Event happens in the constructions using 00. 02br
02br
00In your sentence #1, you used 00 for Main Event and 00 for Sub Event. This is wrong because Main Event (=we be happy) should happen before Sub Event (=the loan trouble start). Because the Sub Event happens in the past and expressed in 00, you have to use either 00 (='we had been happy') or 00 (='we were happy'). 02br
02br
00As for Q #2, you can say "He has been working for all the day long" if this sentence stands alone. (You could utter this when you want to the continuity of 'his' working.) But you said "He is sleeping now" in the previous sentence. I feel "He is sleeping now" and "He has been working for all the day long" contradict each other. I think usual people cannot sleep and work simultaneously at a time. 02br
02br
00As for Q #4, I suppose you would now understand why I said your sentence sounds odd. As you are saying, 00 can mean sometimes an experience in the past. 02br
00 EX-6 I have seen him before = I saw him at least once before. 02br
00But it depends on verbs. When you use 00 (='have + p.p.') for stative verbs like 00, it implies the 'continuity of the action up to now', not a past experience. 02br
00 EX-7 I have stayed in New York before (?) =/= I once stayed in New York. 02br
02br
00This is my thought. But others (especially native speakers) may have another opinions. Please wait until they come to post here. 02br
02br
00paco 02br
0-

Roro · Answer

0 Hi, paco! 02br
02br
00I see.... Actually I did not pay much attention to the word "until". You've explained my problem very clearly, with regard to Q1. I really appreciate your kindness. 02br
02br
00But let me put my question in this way. You say: there seems to be some contradiction in the sentence 02br
02br
00. 02br
02br
00Normal people cannot sleep and work simultaneously05000 , to be sure, but, I'm not quite sure, whether it is STATED in this sentence.02br
02br
00You've given me, paco, a good example of incorrect sentences. In your EX-4, 00, there is some semantic conflict between the words "finish" and "until", as you have explained. We could mention another, often quoted example: (1) is correct, but many people would reject (2), wouldn't they...? 02br
02br
00(1) Prinston has visited by Einstein. 02br
00(2) Einstein has visited Prinston. 02br
02br
00I think (2) is rejected because there is some implication that Einstein still exists, but it contradicts reality.... 02br
00And I've been wondering.... Is there the same kind of contradiction of meaning in the sentence above? 02br
00(I'm so sorry for pestering you with same questions!05100 )02br
02br
00Now as to Q4, how about the sentence: Have you ever been to Canada? Or... you know, they say: Been there, done that. I think, in some cases, stative verbs do indicate the previous experience in present perfect forms. Don't you think so..? 02br
02br
00Roro 010id111id10

Paco2004 · Answer

0 Hello Roro 02br
02br
00[1] He is now sleeping deeply, because he has worked for all day long. 02br
00[2] He is now sleeping deeply, because he has been working for all day long. 02br
00Huum..... I still prefer [1], because I'd like to avoid the logical contradiction. 02br
02br
00As for the Einstein matter, first of all let me consider past tense versions. 02br
00[3] Einstein visited Princeton. 02br
00[4] Princeton was visited by Einstein. 02br
00There is no problem in [3], but as for [4], some people might doubt whether an institution can stand as the subject in a passive construct such as [4]. Suppose you say "Princeton was visited by Paco2004", I would say it is clearly ungrammatical, because Paco2004's visit has no effect to the state of Princeton. But [4] could make sense because Einstein was so great that his visit could be an honor even to Princeton. 02br
00Now present perfect versions. 02br
00[5] Einstein has visited Princeton. 02br
00[6] Princeton has been visited by Einstein. 02br
00The sentence [5] is clearly wrong, because Einstein is now dead. As for [6], one could take it as "Princeton has a honourable past experience that Einstein once visited there", but to me the use of the present perfect tense still sound odd. 02br
02br
00As for 'has been', it is a special expression and I think we cannot apply this usage to other verbs. The basic concept of the present perfect tense is ; if the present perfect tense is used for the past event, it means the present state of the subject is affected/effected by the event. (I once discussed this issue here. If you are interested, please 05000. 02br
02br
00paco 040pid92862

Roro · Answer

0 Hi, paco! 02br
02br
00Thank you for your quick response! You gave me a great help and suggestion. I'm re-thinking about the Einstein matter now.... But I will check your post 92862 first. Thank you, paco! 02br
02br
00By the way... let me quote a passage from 00(vol.5, chap.43) (because I love it! It has nothing to do with the matter, though...) 02br
00(the rest is a quote) 02br
02br
00*** 02br
00 -- Did you ever see a white bear? cried my father, turning his head round to Trim. 02br
00 -- No, an' please your honour, replied the corporal. 02br
00 -- But you could discourse about one, Trim, said my father, in case of need? 02br
00 -- How is it possible, brother, said my uncle Toby, if the corporal never saw one? 02br
00 -- It is the fact I want, replied my father, -- and the possibility of it, is as follows: 02br
02br
00   A WHITE BEAR ! Very well. Have I ever seen one? Might I ever have seen one? Am I ever to see one? Ought I ever to have seen one? Or can I ever see one? 02br
02br
00   Would I had seen a white bear? (for how can I imagine it?) 02br
02br
00   If I should see a white bear, what should I say? If I should never see a white bear, what then? 02br
02br
00   If I never have, can, must or shall see a white bear alive ; have I ever seen the skin of one? Did I ever see one painted? -- described? Have I never dreamed of one? 02br
02br
00   Did my father, mother, uncle, aunt, brothers or sisters, ever see a white bear? What would they give? 02br
00 How would they behave? How would the white bear have behaved? Is he wild? Tame? Terrible? Rough? Smooth? 02br
02br
00   -- Is the white bear worth seeing? -- 02br
02br
00   -- Is there no sin in it? -- 02br
02br
00   Is it better than a BLACK ONE? 02br
02br
0-

I have vs I have been

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