"I got the Indian sign on me."

Question

Humphry Bogart used this expresion to say he was wanted by the police in Dark Passage .
Does anyone know the origin of this expression?

"These are the times that try men's souls." Tom Paine

Stagshrine

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Usenet · Accepted Answer

[nq:1]Humphry Bogart used this expresion to say he was wanted by the police in Dark Passage . Does anyone know the origin of this expression?[/nq]
I see that no one has ventured to answer your question, as yet. I think you would get some more answers if you had at least indicated an attempt to Google "Indian sign" and had given us the results of your search.

As it is, and without my searching, here are a few thoughts that your question has inspired.
"Indian sign", in my understanding, is equivalent to a curse, or to the "evil eye". I think it refers to American Indian shamans doing their divining rituals, or blessings, etc. with smoke, drumming, dancing, chanting and postures. The idea that the curse clings to and affects one's fate has some overtones of voodoo, doesn't it?

So, since the expression occurs in a movie, and we don't know the script, or the source the original writer used, we have to assume that somewhere along the line a bit of fantasy is involved, and the interpretation you can give to the expression is as good as anyone else's, as long as you or I don't say our respective interpretations are "Gospel".

Usenet · Answer

[nq:2]Humphry Bogart used this expresion to say he was wanted ... Passage . Does anyone know the origin of this expression?[/nq]
[nq:1]I see that no one has ventured to answer your question, as yet. I think you would get some more ... and postures. The idea that the curse clings to and affects one's fate has some overtones of voodoo, doesn't it?[/nq]
That's how OED sees it, giving particular prominence to the 1944 quote. But here are the OED cites for the expression in that sense (the literal sense is covered too, of course)"1910 R. Grau Business Man in Amusement World 97 He has also been careful to protect himself against 'the Indian Sign'. 1912 McClure's Mag. XXXIX. 235/1 He sure put the Indian sign on Tommy Ryan that time. 1916 Boy Scouts' Year Bk. (N.Y.) 93/2 He had proved that the Indian sign wasn't infallible.+ After all, then, the Indian sign was a kind of superstition. 1929 Bookman Sept. 62/2 Owen Johnson always has had what is known as the 'Indian Sign' on me.

I never won a bet from him and never will. 1944 R. F. Adams Western Words (1945) 83/1 To put the Indian sign on someone meant to hex or curse him with some kind of witchcraft, also to get him where you want him. 1948 V. Palmer Golconda x. 79 What silly notions about ourselves we can coddle! I believe the old boy's put the Indian sign on you, Neda. 1973 Listener 5 June 6/3 We were riding very high in terms of our legislative programme. We had the Indian sign on the Congress, so to speak."
I always understood the phrase to indicate a physical gesture conveying magical superiority.

John Dean
Oxford

Usenet · Answer

[nq:2]I see that no one has ventured to answer your ... affects one's fate has some overtones of voodoo, doesn't it?[/nq]
[nq:1]That's how OED sees it, giving particular prominence to the 1944 quote. But here are the OED cites for the ... Sign'. 1912 McClure's Mag. XXXIX. 235/1 I always understood the phrase to indicate a physical gesture conveying magical superiority.[/nq]
Thanks, John. The shamans, when I have seen them performing blessings (good stuff) sometimes waved a rattle, and always a feather. The dusting of a person or site with tobacco (kinnickkinnick) was also done with a strewing or sowing motion of the hand. The poking motion with the index and middle fingers (poking out the eye) that some kids use today may be an old threat gesture, but I don't think a sorcery kind of thing.
In the "old world", there were a couple of hand gestures which were supposed to ward off the "evil eye", but if they crossed the pond, they died in the early years. I mean, I grew up with the people around me saying "Jesus, Mary, Joseph", but often as not, that *********** was to express exasperation, when not used in the devotions. Sign of the Cross, as well, but those are Christian signs, though some say the sign was somewhat akin to waving off or warding off the evil eye. Are you aware of any non-Christian warding-off signs? I think the "fig" was used for that (thumb protruding between index and middle fingers), though I have also heard/seen that used as a FU sign.

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]Thanks, John. The shamans, when I have seen them performing blessings (good stuff) sometimes waved a rattle, and always a ... for that (thumb protruding between index and middle fingers), though I have also heard/seen that used as a FU sign.[/nq]
The US and Canadian plainsmen were not particularly well known for invoking curses and the like. Once in a while they got one up on the homicidal maniacs that befell them, with their superior lay of the land tactics.
Knowing the way things worked on your home ground whoever you were, gave you the advantage.
Without seeing the film and getting the context, I would imagine that the phrase was akin to the locals giving secret or indirect help to one party or the other because they were the local boy or team.

"I got the Indian sign on me."

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