"i before e, except after c" rule ends

Question

British government spells end of 'i before e' rule
1 hr 41 mins ago

LONDON ? It's a spelling mantra that generations of schoolchildren have learned ? "i before e, except after c."
But new British government guidance tells teachers not to pass on the rule to students, because there are too many exceptions.

The "Support For Spelling" document, which is being sent to thousands of primary schools, says the rule "is not worth teaching" because it doesn't account for words like 'sufficient,' 'veil' and 'their.'

Jack Bovill of the Spelling Society, which advocates simplified spelling, said Saturday he agreed with the decision.

But supporters say the ditty has value because it is one of the few language rules that most people remember.

Usenet · Accepted Answer

[nq:1] British government spells end of 'i before e' rule 1 hr 41 mins ago LONDON ? It's a spelling ... But supporters say the ditty has value because it is one of the few language rules that most people remember.[/nq]
Well, it's "I before E except after C or when sounded like A as in "neighbor" or "weigh."
Or Neighbor or Their.
Of course sufficient is still an exception and there are a few others but on the whole, it's a reasonably good rule with a few exceptions and why not teach the rule, plus a few exceptions, rather than act as if there's no rule and every word with "i and e" has to be learned individually as if there's nothing but exceptions.

NMS

Usenet · Answer

[nq:2] British government spells end of 'i before e' rule ... one of the few language rules that most people remember.[/nq]
[nq:1]Well, it's "I before E except after C or when sounded like A as in "neighbor" or "weigh." Or Neighbor ... no rule and every word with "i and e" has to be learned individually as if there's nothing but exceptions.[/nq]
So is this the dumbing down of England or have they always been dumb, too?

The Peripatetic Samurai Robot

Diplomacy: The art of telling someone to go to **** in such a way that they actually look forward to the trip.

Usenet · Answer

"nmstevens"
[nq:1]Well, it's "I before E except after C or when sounded like A as in "neighbor" or "weigh." Or Neighbor or Their.[/nq]
This is the first time I've ever heard the second part of the rule, "...or when sounded like A."
Thinking back to my schooldays, the word that gave the most problems was 'their,' usually dealt with by the teacher saying crossly, "It's not thy-er, it's thaire."
I can hardly believe they're not going to teach the "I before E" rule. It's really useful I must use it several times a week.

English spelling is so tricky, people need all the help they can get with it.

Martin B

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]So is this the dumbing down of England or have they always been dumb, too?[/nq]
Dumb enough to be the ones who came up with those spellings in the first place.
English spelling is no longer phonetic, although it was to the monks and scribes who wrote the words down first; the trouble was because they spoke different dialects their phonetics varied around the country.

An example of Dark Ages/mediaeval phonetics:
Cough, hiccough, plough, nought, rough ... see what a spoilsport Noah Webster was?

Usenet · Answer

[nq:2]http://tinyurl.com/mrydp2 British government spells end of 'i before e' rule ... one of the few language rules that most people remember.[/nq]
[nq:1]Well, it's "I before E except after C or when sounded like A as in "neighbor" or "weigh." Or Neighbor ... no rule and every word with "i and e" has to be learned individually as if there's nothing but exceptions.[/nq]
"I before E except after C and a million other exceptions".
But it still helped me spell words correctly.

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]"I before E except after C and a million other exceptions". But it still helped me spell words correctly.[/nq]
Yep, me too.
Pretty long, but kind of amusing apologies to those who have already seen it.
English is tough stuff
Dearest creature in creation,
Study English pronunciation.
I will teach you in my verse
Sounds like corpse, corps, horse, and worse.
I will keep you, Suzy, busy,
Make your head with heat grow dizzy.
Tear in eye, your dress will tear.
So shall I! Oh hear my prayer.
Just compare heart, beard, and heard,
Dies and diet, lord and word,
Sword and sward, retain and Britain.
(Mind the latter, how it's written.)
Now I surely will not plague you
With such words as plaque and ague.
But be careful how you speak:
Say break and steak, but bleak and streak;
Cloven, oven, how and low,
Script, receipt, show, poem, and toe.
Hear me say, devoid of trickery,
Daughter, laughter, and Terpsichore,
Typhoid, measles, topsails, aisles,
Exiles, similes, and reviles;
Scholar, vicar, and cigar,
Solar, mica, war and far;
One, anemone, Balmoral,
Kitchen, lichen, laundry, laurel;
Gertrude, German, wind and mind,
Scene, Melpomene, mankind.
Billet does not rhyme with ballet,
Bouquet, wallet, mallet, chalet.
Blood and flood are not like food,
Nor is mould like should and would.
Viscous, viscount, load and broad,
Toward, to forward, to reward.
And your pronunciation's OK
When you correctly say croquet,
Rounded, wounded, grieve and sieve,
Friend and fiend, alive and live.
Ivy, privy, famous; clamour
And enamour rhyme with hammer.
River, rival, tomb, bomb, comb,
Doll and roll and some and home.
Stranger does not rhyme with anger,
Neither does devour with clangour.
Souls but foul, haunt but aunt,
Font, front, wont, want, grand, and grant,
Shoes, goes, does. Now first say finger,
And then singer, ginger, linger,
Real, zeal, mauve, gauze, gouge and gauge,
Marriage, foliage, mirage, and age.
Query does not rhyme with very,
Nor does fury sound like bury.
Dost, lost, post and doth, cloth, loth.
Job, ***, bosom, transom, oath.
Though the differences seem little,
We say actual but victual.
Refer does not rhyme with deafer.
Foeffer does, and zephyr, heifer.
Mint, pint, senate and sedate;
Dull, bull, and George ate late.
Scenic, Arabic, Pacific,
Science, conscience, scientific.
Liberty, library, heave and heaven,
Rachel, ache, moustache, eleven.
We say hallowed, but allowed,
People, leopard, towed, but vowed.
Mark the differences, moreover,
Between mover, cover, clover;
Leeches, breeches, wise, precise,
Chalice, but police and lice;
Camel, constable, unstable,
Principle, disciple, label.
Petal, panel, and canal,
Wait, surprise, plait, promise, pal.
Worm and storm, chaise, chaos, chair,
Senator, spectator, mayor.
Tour, but our and succour, four.
Gas, alas, and Arkansas.
Sea, idea, Korea, area,
Psalm, Maria, but malaria.
Youth, south, southern, cleanse and clean.
Doctrine, turpentine, marine.
Compare alien with Italian,
Dandelion and battalion.
Sally with ally, yea, ye,
Eye, I, ay, aye, whey, and key.
Say aver, but ever, fever,
Neither, leisure, skein, deceiver.
Heron, granary, canary.
Crevice and device and aerie.
Face, but preface, not efface.
Phlegm, phlegmatic, ***, glass, bass.
Large, but target, gin, give, verging,
Ought, out, joust and scour, scourging.
Ear, but earn and wear and tear
Do not rhyme with here but ere.
Seven is right, but so is even,
Hyphen, roughen, nephew Stephen,
Monkey, donkey, Turk and jerk,
Ask, grasp, wasp, and cork and work.
Pronunciation think of Psyche!
Is a paling stout and spikey?
Won't it make you lose your wits,
Writing groats and saying grits?
It's a dark abyss or tunnel:
Strewn with stones, stowed, solace, gunwale,
Islington and Isle of Wight,
Housewife, verdict and indict.
Finally, which rhymes with enough
Though, through, plough, or dough, or cough?
Hiccough has the sound of cup.
My advice is to give up!!!
I don't know who originally wrote this, but it's all over the place on the Internet.

RonB
"There's a story there...somewhere"

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]Won't it make you lose your wits, Writing groats and saying grits?[/nq]
I know of no English dialect in which "groats" is pronounced "grits".

Bert

Usenet · Answer

[nq:2]So is this the dumbing down of England or have they always been dumb, too?[/nq]
[nq:1]Dumb enough to be the ones who came up with those spellings in the first place. English spelling is no ... country. An example of Dark Ages/mediaeval phonetics: Cough, hiccough, plough, nought, rough ... see what a spoilsport Noah Webster was?[/nq]
English spelling and grammar is also the result of extensive borrowing from Norse, Saxon and Latin, notably.

Usenet · Answer

[nq:2]Dumb enough to be the ones who came up with ... nought, rough ... see what a spoilsport Noah Webster was?[/nq]
[nq:1]English spelling and grammar is also the result of extensive borrowing from Norse, Saxon and Latin, notably.[/nq]
And French, I think. Someone once told me that most of names we know animals by were English... deer, sheep, cow... and the news we knew them by when eating them were French... venison, mutton, beef.

English is a weird language.

RonB
"There's a story there...somewhere"

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]and the news we knew them[/nq]
err... and the names we knew them
(It's like my fingers are in another world.)

RonB
"There's a story there...somewhere"

"i before e, except after c" rule ends

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