I am pretty and (I am) a Miss Hong Kong pageant.

Question

As I write in English, I always come across this problem: not sure whether it's gramatically natural/correct to omit "subject+verb" or "verb" for the second action/ description (I also want to know if it's grammatically natural/correct if I bother to include it):

1) I am pretty and (omit "I am"/"am") a Miss Hong Kong pageant.
2) I was talking to my friends and (omit "I was"/"was") chewing a gum.
3) I have not submitted my homework and (omit "I have not"/"have not") attended the morning class. (Please do not consider "not only..but also" and "neither...nor".)
4) He did not talk to parents and (omit "did not") report to teachers afterwards. (Same as above about "not only.....)
5) John will repair his car and (omit "he will"/"will") sell it.
6) I can do many things but (omit "I") have not been praised by parents.
7) I seldom see Mary but (omit "I") always see her husband.
8) You can select any 2 questions to answer and (omit "I") should remember that each question carries different marks.

Mister Micawber · Accepted Answer

You can use any of those versions, but #3 and #4 are incorrect. They should read:

3) I have not submitted my homework (and "I have not"/"have not") // (or) attended the morning class.
4) He did not talk to parents (and "did not") // (or) report to teachers afterwards.

'Or' is required in order to carry the negation to the second main verb if 'not' is not repeated.

Yo kachibi · Answer

So, to sum up, you mean we should treat negative sentences differently:

It is correct to say:
-I have not submitted homework and I have not attended the class.
-I have not submitted homework and have not attended the class.

To make it concise, we can also use "or" to say:
-I have not submitted homework or attended the class.

But it's wrong to say:
-I have not submitted homework and attended the class. (<< I understand that "or" is required to carry the negation to the second main verb without using another "not". But are there any reasons behind that we cannot write in this way? Or it's an unexplanable grammar rule?

Yo kachibi · Answer

Is the above conclusion right Micawber?

Yo kachibi · Answer

Micawber hope you can confirm my conclusion =p

Yo kachibi · Answer

Actually, what I mean is : "I am pretty and a Miss HK pageant contestant" or "I am pretty and am a Miss Hong Kong pageant contestant" or "I am pretty and I am a Miss Hong Kong pageant contestant."
Hope more native speakers can discuss this thread=p

Dimsumexpress · Answer

Hi,
Apparently, MM already commented on your questions. While he is resting, I'd like to offer my two cents worth. When I read these sentences,they sounded like they were written by a non-native if my ears tell me right.
How did get these sentences?

I won;t touch all the sentence but I will comment on the ones deemed workable.

Anonymous1) I am pretty and a Miss Hong Kong pageant.

Anonymous2) I was talking to my friends and chewing a (piece of ) gum. Omission or not, this is not a semantically sound sentence. The obvious: "chewing a gun" is incorrect. You need to say "a stick / piece of gum". Also if you change "and" to while", then it makes more sense.

Both sentences have problems with the omission.
The semantics of the first sentence should be: I am beautiful because I am the first runner up of "Miss Hong Kong Pageant".
You can also say: I am the first runner up of "Miss Hong Kong Pageant" and I am beautiful. Notice the use of " and" and "because" change the semantics.
Like a line in an old song by Helen Reddy: I am strong, I am invincible, I am woman
We can't simply omit the subject and verb at will, but sometimes when the context is clear, omission is possilbe.
.

Anonymous3) I have not submitted my homework and (omit "I have not"/"have not") attended the morning class. (Please do not consider "not only..but also" and "neither...nor".)

The correct version is: I did not turn in/ submit my homework and (I did not) attend the morning class. We can't use present perfect for past events. And for the negation pattern, if you omit "I did not" on the second clause, it makes it sound ambiguous.Consider the same structure in this example: I do not like Mary and (do not) like Paul. Ambiguous, right?

By the way, when you use a different conjunction other than "and" (i.e. because, but, while...etc), it can make a difference whether you may make the omission. Sometimes omission is possible within the context, like #5 and #7
5) John will repair his car and (omit)sell it.
7) I seldom see Mary but (omit ) always see her husband.

Hailsatyr · Answer

so no AND when combining two negative predicates?

Dimsumexpress · Answer

hailsatyr,

No, I didn't say that. There are no black-and-white rules. The context dictates when if the omission is allowed.
I am not lazy and ( I am not) greedy. - With or without omission, it is perfectly good negation sentence. But to produce an emphatic argument, I would keep the pattern with no omission.

I am not lazy but (I am) greedy. - With "but", the meaning changes because it brings a opposing contrast. That was my point.

Yo kachibi · Answer

Thanks for your detailed explanation dimsumexpress. Below are some follow-up questions:

1) I was talking to my friends and chewing a stick of gum. << actually, I did not intend to make it a semantically logical/ sound sentence. Maybe this sentence created confusion to you. But I just want to know if we can omit the second "was" under certain circumstances. Like, how about I just describe two concurrent actions and link them together with an "and" for this sentence?

2) I am beautiful and I am the first runner up of Miss HK pageant. << even "because" provides a clear cause-effect relationship, can't I use "and" to link them up too (though the relationship is less obvious)?

3) I am the first runner up of Miss HK pageant and I am beautiful. << this sentence is considered correct by you. If it is correct, can I omit the second "I" or "I am" in the sentence? "I am the first runner up of Miss HK and am beautiful" or "I am the first runner up of Miss HK and beautiful".

4) I do not like Mary and like Paul. << this sentence is provided by you to say that the omission of the second "do not" will create confusion (because not sure whether the second "like" is like or do not like). For me, I will simply write "I do not like Mary and Peter." I think your example may not be a perfect one because the use of the present tense verbs will create confusion (the second "like" can be an independant one or a continuation of "do not"). And both sections share the verb "like". I suggest a present perfect tense example with different verbs:
"I have not revised for the exam and done my homework."
Just neglect whether the tense of this sentence is natural or not (maybe just assume that I speak this sentence to my friend). The verb "done" clearly indicates itself as a present perfect tense verb. And we will naturally link this to "have not" as the second action because it must be wrong to say that " I done my homework". What do you think about it?

Dimsumexpress · Answer

yo kachibi Below are some follow-up questions:1) I was talking to my friends and chewing a stick of gum. << actually, I did not intend to make it a semantically logical/ sound sentence. What is your point then ? yo kachibi, Judging from the tone and fluency in your reply, your English seemed to be at a level much higher than the questions you posted. What puzzles me is, with such fluency, you should be able to tell when to "omit", when you can't. Are you toying with us? I have a hunch, are you a native?

Maybe this sentence created confusion to you. But I just want to know if we can omit the second "was" under certain circumstances. Like, how about I just describe two concurrent actions and link them together with an "and" for this sentence?2) I am beautiful and I am the first runner up of Miss HK pageant. << even "because" provides a clear cause-effect relationship, can't I use "and" to link them up too (though the relationship is less obvious)? I don't believed I was confused. I replied your questions with an emphasis on the following criteria: semantic, naturalness, structure, grammaticality and fluency. Thus, I made revisions on some of your questions.

3) I am the first runner up of Miss HK pageant and I am beautiful. << this sentence is considered correct by you. If it is correct, can I omit the second "I" or "I am" in the sentence? "I am the first runner up of Miss HK and am beautiful" or "I am the first runner up of Miss HK and beautiful" Beside being grammatically correct, repeating " I am.." makes it almost a declaration of her self image, not an introduction. So omitting the second "I" from your original question, although may be understood, is incorrect, at least from the standpoint of how it sounds.

.4) I do not like Mary and like Paul.<< this sentence is provided by you to say that the omission of the second "do not" will create confusion (because not sure whether the second "like" is like or do not like). For me, I will simply write "I do not like Mary and Peter." I think your example may not be a perfect one because the use of the present tense verbs will create confusion (the second "like" can be an independant one or a continuation of "do not"). And both sections share the verb "like". I suggest a present perfect tense example with different verbs: "I have not revised for the exam and done my homework."Just neglect whether the tense of this sentence is natural or not (maybe just assume that I speak this sentence to my friend). The verb "done" clearly indicates itself as a present perfect tense verb. And we will naturally link this to "have not" as the second action because it must be wrong to say that " I done my homework". What do you think about it? Yes, I created that sentence to demonstrate the point. Perhaps, I offered more explanations than I should and thus get myself backfired at times. I will simply write "I do not like Mary and Peter." you are right. But consider this: I know you don't like both of them but I suggested to you " why don't you invite Peter and Mary to your birthday party? You could say any of the following and still be considered correct: I don't like either of them/ I don't like them/ as your suggestion above, or emphatically, you say " I don't like Mary and (I don't like) Paul...". Still I am not sure what precisely your interest was in posting those questions, because your last post revealed that at your level, you should not have difficulty determining when omission is ok, or otherwise.

I am pretty and (I am) a Miss Hong Kong pageant.

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