Hypothetical would

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CalifJimEverestCTSAlex: Do you know who can help me with house painting?Dan: Jeff would help you if he weren’t busy./Jeff would help you if if he had a day off./Jeff would help you if you paid him. Do you think these are true conditions?Yes. Jeff's helping is conditional on those situations. That's more or less saying that if those conditions don't apply, you can't be sure you'll get help from Jeff.EverestCTSCan you give me a context or scenario where I can use “he would help you.” as true would of probability? The exact same sentence though.Didn't we have that one above, when I said that that sentence seemed like it had a would of probability because it could be paraphrased as "He would probably help you"?CJThank you very again. I just would like to confirm the following.1.Alex: Do you know who can help me with house painting?Dan: Ask Jeff. He would help you.2.Alex: Do you know who can help me with house painting?Dan: Ask Jeff. He will help you.You said both are correct with “would” being less certain in 1 with the meaning that he will probably help you and “Will” in 2 is more certain than “would” in 1. I apologize that I tend to ask repeated questions for confirmation. What I meant by a true condition is that the main clause that involves would must be the result of the condition in if or implied if clause. “He would help you” wasn’t the result of the condition “if you asked Jeff”. In a conditional sentence, you have a condition and you have a result. The result only happens when the condition happens or is met. Remember when I was making up if clauses forcibly for sentences with would of probability? All those if clauses were never the true conditions. All of those if clauses had nothing to do with the main clause sentences because those if clauses had no impacts on the main sentences that involved would. What do you think? This is a pretty dumb question but I have got to ask it.If you asked Jeff, he would help you. We discussed that “if you asked Jeff” doesn’t cause him to help you. Basically, “he would help you” is not the result of the condition “if you asked Jeff”. Here is my question. Can “if you asked Jeff” NEVER be the true condition for “he would help you” in any kind of scenario? If you can think of one, please give me an example.(You have always helped me with my English and I will always remember that. I am going back to school soon. I am 28 years old US army veteran, believe me or not. English is my fourth language.)

CalifJim · Accepted Answer

EverestCTS1.

Alex: Do you know who can help me with house painting?

Dan: Ask Jeff. He would help you.

2.

Alex: Do you know who can help me with house painting?

Dan: Ask Jeff. He will help you.

You said both are correct with “would” being less certain in 1 with the meaning that he will probably help you and “Will” in 2 is more certain than “would” in 1.

Yes, 'will' sounds like a more confident statement of an opinion than 'would' in that situation.

EverestCTSWhat I meant by a true condition is that the main clause that involves would must be the result of the condition in if or implied if clause. “He would help you” wasn’t the result of the condition “if you asked Jeff”. In a conditional sentence, you have a condition and you have a result. The result only happens when the condition happens or is met.

OK. I understand what you meant. However, it's sometimes hard to understand what others mean when they say "true condition". I don't think there is a standard definition for that. In fact, until I got in these discussions with you, I don't think I ever heard the distinction between "condition" and "true condition".

EverestCTSRemember when I was making up if clauses forcibly for sentences with would of probability? All those if clauses were never the true conditions. All of those if clauses had nothing to do with the main clause sentences because those if clauses had no impacts on the main sentences that involved would. What do you think?
I don't know what to think really. The would of probability doesn't even need an if-clause, so you didn't really need to make them up, though you had to make up some kind of context of course.

This is a pretty dumb question but I have got to ask it.

If you asked Jeff, he would help you.

We discussed that “if you asked Jeff” doesn’t cause him to help you. However, let's keep in mind that asking does influence Jeff in some way, so according to some people who see that sentence, they may consider it a normal causalconditional. That's the hard part about these sentences. Different people can have different opinions about them. Basically, “he would help you” is not the result of the condition “if you asked Jeff”. Here is my question. Can “if you asked Jeff” NEVER be the true condition for “he would help you” in any kind of scenario? If you can think of one, please give me an example.

I can't think of anything except to look at the sentence differently, as I described above. Maybe just "influence" is enough for some people. They would say it's a true condition even if there is not, strictly speaking, a causal relationship.

EverestCTSI am going back to school soon.

Wonderful! I thought you were in school already. Best of luck on that.

EverestCTSI am 28 years old US army veteran, believe me or not.

Congratulations! (I'm four times your age, you know. )

EverestCTSEnglish is my fourth language.

Wow! I can hold my own in three others besides English, but only as a tourist, and that doesn't really count.

CJ

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