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JungKim Posted 12 years ago
Grammar

Hypothetical or Real?

Wild cereals are annual plants. That is, they grow, produce seeds, and die in one season, then their seeds grow into new plants the next year. When a plant ripens, the rachis (little stalks attaching individual seeds to the plant) weaken and one by one the seeds fall to the ground, where their protective husks shatter and they germinate. For foragers fifteen thousand years ago the simplest way to harvest such seeds was to take a basket and shake the plants so the almost-ripe seeds fell into it. The only problem was that every seed on every wild plant in every stand ripened at different times. (1) If gatherers got to a stand late in the season, most of the seeds would already have fallen and germinated or been eaten by birds. (2) If they came too early the rachis would still be strong and most seeds would be too firmly attached to shake loose. (3) Either way, they lost most of the crop. (4) They could, of course, visit the stand repeatedly, but then they would have less time to visit other stands.

-- (Numbering and Italics/bold mine.) --

The above is a paragraph taken from a book titled "Why the West Rules for Now" by Ian Morris.

(1) and (2) are conditionals, and they are clearly talking about a past event (fifteen thousand years ago).

My question is basically twofold:

Are (1) and (2) talking about a hypothetical situation in the past or a real situation in the past?

I can see that (3) refers to a real situation and (4) a hypothetical. Am I right?
  

Top answer

All 4 - indeed everything in the text after "For foragers 15,000 yrs. " - are hypothetical. This is an imagined scenario of what might have taken place 15,000 yrs.

— Anonymous

  • All 4 - indeed everything in the text after "For foragers 15,000 yrs.
  • " - are hypothetical.
  • This is an imagined scenario of what might have taken place 15,000 yrs.
  • ago: there is no archeological evidence from which one can deduce with some certainty what happened some 15,000 yrs.
  • ago; there is no written record of what happened 15,000 yrs.
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27 Answers
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All 4 - indeed everything in the text after "For foragers 15,000 yrs. ago..." - are hypothetical. This is an imagined scenario of what might have taken place 15,000 yrs. ago: there is no archeological evidence from which one can deduce with some certainty what happened some 15,000 yrs. ago; there is no written record of what happened 15,000 yrs. ago, in this pre-literate age.
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Hi,
You are correct about (3) and (4).
Number 2 describes an unreal/hypothetical situation in present/future.
Number one is a mixed conditional between unreal present in the if clause and unreal past in the main clause.
Hamid
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hrsaneiNumber 2 describes an unreal/hypothetical situation in present/future. Number one is a mixed conditional between unreal present in the if clause and unreal past in the main clause.
When you say 'present/future' and 'unreal present' and 'unreal past', are you referring to 'time'?
If so, I don't understand how (2) would describe a 'present/future' sit
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AnonymousAll 4 - indeed everything in the text after "For foragers 15,000 yrs. ago..." - are hypothetical. This is an imagined scenario of what might have taken place 15,000 yrs. ago: there is no archeological evidence from which one can deduce with some certainty what happened some 15,000 yrs. ago; there is no written record of what happened 15,000 yrs. ago, in this pre-
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JungKim(1) If gatherers got to a stand late in the season, most of the seeds would already have fallen and germinated or been eaten by birds. (2) If they came too early the rachis would still be strong and most seeds would be too firmly attached to shake loose. (3) Either way, they lost most of the crop. (4) They could, of course, visit the stand repeatedly, but then they
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fivejedjonThese sentences are not traditonal conditionals. All are about possible past situations. None is unreal/counterfactual.
As for (3), I agree that it's a real past situation both semantically and syntactically.

As for (4), however, I'm not sure if it really refers to a real past situation. The write's simply saying that to visit a particular s
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This is similar to fiction prose, in which imagined situations are depicted by the author. The things described in a novel can seem to be exactly what actual situations are like, but they are not real in that they are imaginary creations of the author. In the quoted excerpt, the writer is depicting conjectural situations that might have occurred 15,000 yrs. ago. They are described as though the
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AnonymousThis is similar to fiction prose, in which imagined situations are depicted by the author. The things described in a novel can seem to be exactly what actual situations are like, but they are not real in that they are imaginary creations of the author. In the quoted excerpt, the writer is depicting conjectural situations that might have occurred 15,000 yrs. ago.
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JungKim(1) If gatherers got to a stand late in the season, most of the seeds would already have fallen and germinated or been eaten by birds. (2) If they came too early the rachis would still be strong and most seeds would be too firmly attached to shake loose. (3) Either way, they lost most of the crop. (4) They could, of course, visit the stand repeatedly, but then they
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CalifJimThere is nothing hypothetical or imagined here except insofar as the author is guessing how things were 15,000 years ago, as, of course, he has to do.
Let's assume for the sake of argument that it's "nothing hypothetical or imagined" but that it's a past event the author simply doesn't know for a fact and thus has to guess. And let me focus only on (2)
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