Hyphen question.

Question

"Hour-and-a-half's drive to the nearest Marks and Spencers, Robert, an hour-and-a-bloody-half."
Is that the best way to punctuate that? My worry is that the second form is different from the first, since it is no longer a description of the drive but is merely an amount of time - and a "bloody" has inserted itself by tmesis. Any suggestions (that don't change the actual words, which might be technically inaccurate - "Marks and Spencer" is the correct name of the shop, for example - but are what I want this lady to say)?
Cheers.
Peasemarch.

Usenet · Accepted Answer

[nq:1]"Hour-and-a-half's drive to the nearest Marks and Spencers, Robert, an hour-and-a-******-half." Is that the best way to punctuate that?[/nq]
Try this:
Hour-and-a-half's drive to the nearest Marks and Spencers, Robert! An hour and a ****** half.
You might switch the exclamation point with the period, or make both marks the same one way or the other, depending on the speaker's level of emotion.
The full stop of some sort after Robert is the crucial thing, I think. Reading your single sentence above, I found myself momentarily disoriented when I hit the comma after Robert and still had another clause to go.

Opus the Penguin (that's my real email addy)
You snipped my sig!

Usenet · Answer

[nq:2]"Hour-and-a-half's drive to the nearest Marks and Spencers, Robert, an hour-and-a-******-half." Is that the best way to punctuate that?[/nq]
[nq:1]Try this: Hour-and-a-half's drive to the nearest Marks and Spencers, Robert! An hour and a ****** half. You might switch ... above, I found myself momentarily disoriented when I hit the comma after Robert and still had another clause to go.[/nq]
I agree, but I will add that I would make the first sentence-ending mark a period, and my last one would be the exclamation point. I think that the second sentence is the most likely one to be said with extra emphasis.
Skitt (in Hayward, California)
www.geocities.com/opus731/

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]"Hour-and-a-half's drive to the nearest Marks and Spencers, Robert, an hour-and-a-******-half." Is that the best way to punctuate that? My ... Spencer" is the correct name of the shop, for example - but are what I want this lady to say)?[/nq]
Addressing only the hyphenation:
Your belief is correct. The second set is unwanted.

"Hour-and-a-half's drive to the nearest Marks and Spencers, Robert, an hour and a ****** half."
The hyphenation is supplied for the first set to show that it is a compound adjective.

Cordially,
Eric Walker
My opinions on English are available at
http://owlcroft.com/english/

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]"Hour-and-a-half's drive to the nearest Marks and Spencers, Robert, an hour-and-a-******-half." Is that the best way to punctuate that? My ... Spencer" is the correct name of the shop, for example - but are what I want this lady to say)?[/nq]
I would put spaces for all the hyphens. If it had been "An hour-and-a-half drive", it would be different; attributive use of a noun phrase is often signaled by hyphenation, but possessive 's is usually added without change.

Joe Fineman (Email Removed)

Usenet · Answer

A. Willis:
[nq:2]"Hour-and-a-half's drive to the nearest Marks and Spencers, Robert, an ... - but are what I want this lady to say)?[/nq]
Eric Walker:
[nq:1]Addressing only the hyphenation: Your belief is correct. The second set is unwanted. "Hour-and-a-half's drive to the nearest Marks and Spencers, Robert, an hour and a ****** half."[/nq]
That looks correct to me, but since possessive "'s" can be applied to a phrase without having to hyphenate it, I would also accept it with no hyphens, and I think I prefer it that way.
Also, when people add "s" to the name of a store they are usually treating it as a possessive in this case once again applied to a whole phrase. I also think that an exclamation mark is certainly warranted; the way I hear the emphasis falling, I think it goes at the end. So my suggestion is:
"Hour and a half's drive to the nearest Marks and Spencer's, Robert, an hour and a ****** half!"

Mark Brader, Toronto > "If you want a 20th century solution, the (Email Removed) > obvious answer is helicopters!" Bob Scheurle

My text in this article is in the public domain.

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]Eric Walker:[/nq]
[nq:2]Addressing only the hyphenation: Your belief is correct. The second ... Marks and Spencers, Robert, an hour and a ****** half."[/nq]
[nq:1]That looks correct to me, but since possessive "'s" can be applied to a phrase without having to hyphenate it, I would also accept it with no hyphens, and I think I prefer it that way.[/nq]
The hyphenation is not driven by the need to put the whole into the genitive, but simply by its being a compound adjective. We would also write, for comparison, an hour-and-a-half-long concert (if, that is, we were careless of felicity).
[nq:1]Also, when people add "s" to the name of a store they are usually treating it as a possessive in this case once again applied to a whole phrase. . . .[/nq]
Nowadays, institutional names are whatever the institution says, and many that once were, or would naturally seem to be (or both), genitive are simply written by the institution and as their legal form with no apostrophe (Teachers College, Authors Guild, and many store names). It gets tricky.

Cordially,
Eric Walker
My opinions on English are available at
http://owlcroft.com/english/

Usenet · Answer

[nq:2]Eric Walker: That looks correct to me, but since possessive ... no hyphens, and I think I prefer it that way.[/nq]
[nq:1]The hyphenation is not driven by the need to put the whole into the genitive, but simply by its being a compound adjective. We would also write, for comparison, an hour-and-a-half-long concert (if, that is, we were careless of felicity).[/nq]
The point is that it's not a compound adjective. It's not an adjective at all (even in your terminology, I think); it's a noun phrase in the genitive. That is to say, we don't write "John-Witherspoon's signature"; we write "John Witherspoon's signature", "the signature of John Witherspoon", but "a John-Witherspoon-style signature". Similarly, we write "a drive of an hour and a half", "an hour and a half's drive", but "an hour-and-a-half-long drive".
That is to say - noun phrases with "-'s" are not subject to the rules of hyphenation for compound modifiers.
[nq:2]Also, when people add "s" to the name of a ... once again applied to a whole phrase. . . .[/nq]
[nq:1]Nowadays, institutional names are whatever the institution says, and many that once were, or would naturally seem to be (or both), genitive are simply written by the institution and as their legal form with no apostrophe (Teachers College, Authors Guild, and many store names). It gets tricky.[/nq]
Yes, but I believe Mark is referring to adding "s" to the name of a store when it's not part of what the institution says the name is. For instance, Pizzeria Uno is usually called "Pizzeria Uno's" or just "Uno's". In these cases - adding an unwarranted "s" to institutional names - I think Mark is right, and an apostrophe is added.

-Aaron J. Dinkin
Dr. Whom

Usenet · Answer

(re "Hour-and-a-half's drive")
[nq:2]The hyphenation is not driven by the need to put ... hour-and-a-half-long concert (if, that is, we were careless of felicity).[/nq]
[nq:1]The point is that it's not a compound adjective. It's not an adjective at all (even in your terminology, I think); it's a noun phrase in the genitive.[/nq]
A noun, or noun phrase, in the genitive is inherently and inalienably an adjective.
[nq:1]Similarly, we write "a drive of an hour and a half", "an hour and a half's drive", but "an hour-and-a-half-long drive". That is to say - noun phrases with "-'s" are not subject to the rules of hyphenation for compound modifiers.[/nq]
On reflection, I recall that that is so: I thus erred in my original. All the hyphens should have been dropped. Haste makes waste, mea culpa .
[nq:2]Nowadays, institutional names are whatever the institution says, and many ... College, Authors Guild, and many store names). It gets tricky.[/nq]
[nq:1]Yes, but I believe Mark is referring to adding "s" to the name of a store when it's not ... cases - adding an unwarranted "s" to institutional names - I think Mark is right, and an apostrophe is added.[/nq]
Ah, I see what you mean. I only vaguely recall the actual store name in question, but I think one of the conjoined names in the full title had a terminal that is an "official" part of the name, and supposed that was what was at issue.

Cordially,
Eric Walker
My opinions on English are available at
http://owlcroft.com/english/

Usenet · Answer

[nq:2]The point is that it's not a compound adjective. It's ... terminology, I think); it's a noun phrase in the genitive.[/nq]
[nq:1]A noun, or noun phrase, in the genitive is inherently and inalienably an adjective.[/nq]
Aw, now you just threw in that "inherently and inalienably" to ruffle my feathers, didn't you? I'm touched.
-Aaron J. Dinkin
Dr. Whom

Usenet · Answer

[nq:1]Aw, now you just threw in that "inherently and inalienably" to ruffle my feathers, didn't you? I'm touched.[/nq]
I often think that of myself, but rarely announce it.

Cordially,
Eric Walker
My opinions on English are available at
http://owlcroft.com/english/

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