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JJDouglas Posted 11 years ago
Grammar

H.W. Fowler - Outdated and Incorrect?

I have attempted to try and educate myself on strict, proper grammar usage recently. I read chapter IV from The King's English by H.W. Fowler, on punctuation and grammar, and have ended up coming away far more confused than before.

Two sections in particular didn't make sense to me. These were sections 8 and 9.

In section 8, Fowler criticises the use of the conjunctions 'for' and 'nor' with a comma, saying it isn't acceptable in any circumstance. This goes against what is generally accepted today, which counts both 'for' and 'nor' in the FANBOYS list of coordinate conjunctions.

On the flip side, in the same section, he states that the and conjunction can sometimes be used without a comma at all when following an independent clause:

It will not be irrelevant to add here, though the point has been touched upon in Understopping, that though a light and-clause may be introduced by no more than a comma, it does not follow that it need not be separated by any stop at all, as in:

When the Motor Cars Act was before the House it was suggested that these authorities should be given the right to make recommendations to the central authorities and that right was conceded.—Times.

This again conflicts with what I understand as the rules today, stating a comma must always be used before a coordinate conjunction that joins two independent clauses.

Furthermore, in Section 9 on using semicolons, Fowler suggests a change to this passage from Rudyard Kipling:

One view called me to another; one hill to its fellow, half across the county, and since I could answer at no more trouble than the snapping forward of a lever, I let the county flow under my wheels.—Kipling.

Fowler says:
In the [Kipling passage] the second comma and the semicolon clearly ought to change places.

Is that correct? Is "one hill to its fellow" not independent? Which would make a semicolon fine? Also, putting a semicolon after the word "county" would then make it a semicolon plus a coordinate conjunction—a combination that today's rules state as unnecessary.

In fact, now that I come to think of it, I have seen many examples in classic literature where one of the coordinate conjunctions is used directly after a semicolon. Is it an old-fashioned thing to do?

If there are any grammarians out there, I would be very thankful if you could help shed a little light on my confusion; I really want to try and improve my grasp of good grammar. As part of the younger generation, I never really had lessons on proper grammar and punctuation usage in my education. All I had to go on was that commas equal small pauses, full stops equal long pauses, and semicolons are somewhere in the middle.
  

Top answer

The original book, c. 1909, reflects the prescriptive grammar of the Victorian age. It is a classic work, but times have changed.

  • The original book, c.
  • 1909, reflects the prescriptive grammar of the Victorian age.
  • It is a classic work, but times have changed.
  • You would be better served by using a more recent reference.
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3 Answers
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The original book, c. 1909, reflects the prescriptive grammar of the Victorian age.
It is a classic work, but times have changed. You would be better served by using a more recent reference.
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Thank you for your reply.

Do you have any recommendations for a good modern style guide on punctuation?
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Joseph BanhamDo you have any recommendations for a good modern style guide on punctuation?
There are various style guides around - Chicago Manual of Style, AP, etc. You can find a list here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Style_guide

If you are looking for a grammar

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