How to use "would have pp" pattern correctly?

Question

In one of my threads I posted some time ago as an anonymous, I have asked these questions but got no replies. However, I really want to get some answers about how to use "would have pp" pattern correctly. I was told that I have asked too many questions in a post therefore no one would give considered answers. So I split it into two part.

Could you help me?

They are all uses of "conditional-would". The if-clauses are missing, but they can be inferred from the context. These implicit ifs can be vague or vacuous, but they are there. Sometimes there are other phrases in the sentences that serve the same purpose as an if-clause. I'll try to interpret them below, highlighting the clues that show the implicit ifs.

1. The union would have nullified the church's claim [ if the union had taken place (but it didn't) ] (I'm assuming without context here that "union" refers to some process of uniting, and that it didn't take place.)

2.Two weeks ago, he would have considered the task awaiting ~ [ If this had happened two weeks ago (but it didn't) ], he would have considered ...

3.It looked nothing like the administrative security offices Langdon would have imagined [ if Langdon had ever bothered to imagine them (but he didn't) ].

4. ... the cart would have gone to Yarmouth quite as well without him ~ would have gone there [ if the carrier had not been there to drive the cart (but he was there)]

1: Are these quoted sentences subjunctive and therefore counterfactual? Or if they are merely speculations(without if-clause)? Or only the if-clauses are subjunctive while the "would have pp" is not subjunctive but only serves as an just imagination of possibilities(speculation) of some event in the past?

2. Is there an if-clause(unreal conditional) always lurk behind a "would have pp" pattern when if-clause is "invisible"?

Thank you very much.

AlpheccaStars · Accepted Answer

zuotengdazuo1: Are these quoted sentences subjunctive and therefore counterfactual?

If I were you, I would have studied harder. (The subjunctive form is in the if-clause, in this example, it is "were." )
The counter-factual clause is "If I were you." Obviously, I am not you. The main clause is a true statement.

1. The union would have nullified the church's claim. The union is organization of workers. There is a missing conditional.
2.Two weeks ago, he would have considered the task awaiting, but now he ignored it.
If it were two weeks ago (counterfactual), he would have considered it (true statement).

The "if-clause" is not always explicit. This sentence has no subjunctive verb form:
I would have gone to the game but for the rainstorm.

These sentences are not counterfactual statements; they are true statements of facts:
They lacked strong muscles which would have been required for lifting the boxes.
This model gives you an idea of what Jerusalem would have looked like in the 6th Century.

CalifJim · Answer

AlpheccaStars zuotengdazuo1: Are these quoted sentences subjunctive and therefore counterfactual?If I were you, I would have studied harder. (The subjunctive form is in the if-clause, in this example, it is "were." )The counter-factual clause is "If I were you." Obviously, I am not you. The main clause is a true statement.1. The union would have nullified the church's claim. The union is organization of workers. There is a missing conditional. 2.Two weeks ago, he would have considered the task awaiting, but now he ignored it. If it were two weeks ago (counterfactual), he would have considered it (true statement).The "if-clause" is not always explicit. This sentence has no subjunctive verb form:I would have gone to the game but for the rainstorm. These sentences are not counterfactual statements; they are true statements of facts:They lacked strong muscles which would have been required for lifting the boxes.This model gives you an idea of what Jerusalem would have looked like in the 6th Century.

Note that zuotengdazuo is just being impatient. He has quoted one of my answers here from another thread. He has asked the same questions in that thread as well, which I have answered there, but not fast enough, apparently, to suit his taste.

CJ

AlpheccaStars · Answer

CalifJimNote that zuotengdazuo is just being impatient.

I find that to be a common occurrence in the millennials.

Zuotengdazuo · Answer

Than you so much for your answers. Sorry for my impatience.
Just one more question. By "a true statement of fact" do you mean "we don't know if what the speaker says is a fact or not, it's just a speculation (about the possibilities of something in the future in relative to a past time)."?

AlpheccaStars · Answer

From the speaker's perspective, it is what they are claiming to be true. If the speaker is a habitual liar, of course, anything they purport as true could be false.

Zuotengdazuo · Answer

Thanks again!

So "would have pp" can be a counterfactual statement (like "If I hadn't injured my left leg, I would have gone to school") if companied by a subjunctive if-clause(maybe invisible). Or what "would have pp" claims can be true or false(as in such paragraph as follows), depending on whether the speaker is honest or not. Is my understanding correct?

"The burden of carrying babies presented a dilemma for ancestral mothers as they searched for food and water.
To accomplish their tasks, sometimes they would have needed to put their babies down, and these interruptions 
in physical contact would have been distressing for babies then as they are now."

AlpheccaStars · Answer

zuotengdazuo Or what "would have pp" claims can be true or false(as in such paragraph as follows), depending on whether the speaker is honest or not.

Any statement can be a lie. "Would have" is incidental.

The check is in the mail.
I have read the terms and conditions.
I won't laugh. I promise.

CalifJim · Answer

I have given a lengthy and deeply philosophical

answer to many of these matters at .

There I deal with the concepts of "factual", "counterfactual", and "nonfactual" clauses in (probably too much) detail, as they apply to third conditional sentences. It's unclear as yet whether I was successful.

As for

To accomplish their tasks, sometimes they would have needed to put their babies down, and these interruptions

in physical contact would have been distressing for babies then as they are now.

I would label the would-have-clauses nonfactual (i.e., speculative), certainly not counterfactual as in third conditionals.

CJ

AlpheccaStars · Answer

CalifJim It's unclear as yet whether I was successful.

The proof is in the pudding.

Anonymous · Answer

zuotengdazuo"The burden of carrying babies presented a dilemma for ancestral mothers as they searched for food and water. To accomplish their tasks, sometimes they would have needed to put their babies down, and these interruptions in physical contact would have been distressing for babies then as they are now."

I'm a non-native and have to admit that sometimes the construction "would + perfect infinitive" may be confusing.

So, I'd like to present how I understand the would + perfect infinitive usage in the above example, i.e. in

"The burden of carrying babies presented a dilemma for ancestral mothers as they searched for food and water.

To accomplish their tasks, sometimes they would have needed to put their babies down, and these interruptions in physical contact would have been distressing for babies then as they are now.":

sometimes they would have needed to put their babies down - I understand it as 'on occasion but not always, in the deep past, the ancestral mothers were in need of putting their babies down and they would do (or would have done) it whenever such an occasion of that specified need had arisen (then).

How to use "would have pp" pattern correctly?

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